2015.12.11 Community Chat
( Link back to Dev Chat archive )
On Forums, DPAT & Remmy Analysis, New Labs, & Nando's Dev Fixes
Elves: hi Astro! [3:03 PM]
Elves: thanks :D [3:03 PM]
Astromon: hi elves!!!!!!!!!!! [3:03 PM]
Astromon: how was your week? [3:03 PM]
Elves: how aer you? got a question for us? [3:03 PM]
Astromon: yup [3:03 PM]
Elves: my week was astonishing thanks :D [3:04 PM]
Astromon: i want to do my suggestion first [3:04 PM]
Astromon: i have it copied 1 sec [3:04 PM]
Elves: sounds good let's hear it [3:04 PM]
Elves: k [3:04 PM]
Astromon: Can the developers that make the spreadsheets put the designers name in a column, actually if they could put it in the very first column and right next to it put the eterna score. This way all the info me as a player needs will be right there w/o me having to use the arrow to move to the right to see things.It takes me a long time to comb through the data just to get my scores for my [3:04 PM]
Elves: the suggestion is cut off at the word "my" [3:05 PM]
Astromon: my scores for my designs I work hard on.I have asked about this on getstat and they said the designers name is somewhere "buried" in the spreadsheet but it certainly is not. Once you get the spreadsheets the way you want them like I suggest, save it that way for the future rounds! [6:04 P [3:05 PM]
Astromon: anyway you can ask about this to the dev team ? [3:06 PM]
Astromon: shouldnt be hard to do [3:06 PM]
jnicol: In the past, players did not see this spreadsheet, Johan started the tradition of posting it [3:06 PM]
Astromon: i understand that [3:06 PM]
jnicol: the players only saw tthe browser version [3:06 PM]
jnicol: so the spreadsheet only needed the id to the solution [3:07 PM]
Astromon: r97 meechiee did it this way and it was so easy to see the data [3:07 PM]
Astromon: i c [3:07 PM]
jnicol: I will put in the players name for the next vesion and hopefully Johans process can handle it :) [3:07 PM]
Astromon: if the designer name ans eterna score could be in the same view [3:08 PM]
Astromon: would be awesome thanks<> [3:08 PM]
LFP6: Oh, hey, dev chat! [3:08 PM]
Astromon: my question is any word on when the new cloud labs will be ready?!! [3:08 PM]
Elves: thanks John!! [3:08 PM]
Astromon: hi LFp6 [3:08 PM]
LFP6: Ooh, I do have something I need to bring up to the devs :) [3:08 PM]
Astromon: yeaH thanks jn and hello! [3:09 PM]
Elves: getting the spreadsheets is a big help in the first place, and as John said relatively new addition, so any feedback on improving them is helpful, thanks Astro [3:09 PM]
LFP6: On GetSat, there is now a "role" for alumni employee [3:09 PM]
LFP6: https://getsatisfaction.com/getsatisfaction/topics/release-notes-11-04-2015-alumn-role-for-former-employees-history-improvements [3:09 PM]
Elves: hi LFP6!! [3:09 PM]
Astromon: Thanks Elves [3:10 PM]
LFP6: This prevents them from actually doing anything once they've left the company [3:10 PM]
LFP6: I think it would make sense to start using this [3:10 PM]
LFP6: For both those who are currently employees who have left, and old employees who have no title now [3:10 PM]
Elves: I'm not sure I'm following LFP6 [3:10 PM]
LFP6: If a dev/scientist/etc is no longer a part of EteRNA [3:10 PM]
LFP6: There's a special GetSat "rank" for that [3:11 PM]
Elves: I think everyone is always still a part of eterna, since the community and forum is open globally to non employees too [3:11 PM]
LFP6: Yes [3:11 PM]
LFP6: However [3:11 PM]
Elves: you mean there is a title specifically? [3:11 PM]
LFP6: They should not have the powers of an employee [3:11 PM]
LFP6: Yes, a title and set of privilages [3:11 PM]
LFP6: And along similar lines, those with management access (including myself0 can now set titles for employees, which we should do (devs are devs, scientists are scientists, etc.) [3:12 PM]
Elves: thanks, that's an interesting point. I'm not sure it's a high priority at the moment since we have so few employees [3:12 PM]
LFP6: I can go in and change the titles, but I'd want permission first [3:13 PM]
LFP6: Would personally want the alumn role to be used though, just for security purposes & such [3:13 PM]
LFP6: But an actual employee needs to do that [3:13 PM]
Elves: it looks to me like there is already a title of developer by Rhiju's name for example [3:14 PM]
Elves: as for security I assume anyone whose privileges should be revoked simply loses access [3:15 PM]
Astromon: I want my title to be lab master haha [3:15 PM]
Astromon: speaking of labs , any word on the new ones?! [3:16 PM]
LFP6: @Elves Yes, that's the title I'm speaking of. His title should, I think, be something like "Lead Scientist" or along those lines [3:16 PM]
LFP6: Or "Project Lead", IDK [3:16 PM]
Jennifer Pearl: hi [3:17 PM]
Elves: LFP6 it's an interesting idea. I hadn't thought of it before. [3:17 PM]
LFP6: I don't think anything has been done yet about the old employees. They can still use the forums, jsut not their employee powers I believe [3:17 PM]
LFP6: They're new features [3:17 PM]
LFP6: Or else I would've brought it up much sooner [3:17 PM]
Tigerlrg245: Hello! i just finished my game of dota 2 what did i miss [3:17 PM]
jnicol: Omei, you around? [3:18 PM]
Elves: LFP6 please send me a list of old employees and suggested titles for existing employees, and I'll look into it. [3:18 PM]
Tigerlrg245: yes, defence of the ancients 2, but that's irrelivant now [3:18 PM]
Jennifer Pearl: what did i miss [3:18 PM]
jnicol: Labs should be going up today, Omei is helping out [3:18 PM]
Elves: my current understanding is that people like Jee who left the project still help from time to time, so I wouldn't want to cut them off if they are providing legacy services [3:18 PM]
Tigerlrg245: @Elves hello! im new here and wondered when was the next lab so i can participate in one finally [3:18 PM]
LFP6: @Elves Will do. Reminding me that chat mods should probably be champions too... [3:18 PM]
Astromon: oH boy [3:19 PM]
Jennifer Pearl: I had to do some work just as the chat started up [3:18 PM]
Astromon: YAY! [3:19 PM]
Elves: Hi Tiger, welcome to eterna! :) [3:19 PM]
LFP6: Won't be able to get all devs though, being that many were here before my time, and I wouldn't know them [3:19 PM]
Elves: That's awesome that you want to do labs, that is the best way to help around here [3:19 PM]
LFP6: Official EteRNA folks should probably have a special little thing on the website too :) [3:19 PM]
Elves: We just wrapped up a lab so the new one can take up to another week or two to get posted, i don't know the eta [3:20 PM]
Elves: Hi Jen! [3:20 PM]
Astromon: you missed upgrades spreadsheets and lfp6 wants to work on titles for employees and access for z employees restricted [3:20 PM]
hoglahoo: "Labs should be going up today, Omei is helping out" [3:20 PM]
Tigerlrg245: Well it's been a hack of a question to me just how labs work and how do we practically gather data from it so yes, im eager to start [3:20 PM]
Astromon: x* [3:20 PM]
Elves: thank you hoglahoo! i missed jnicol's earlier statement [3:20 PM]
hoglahoo: easy to miss when text is flying past [3:21 PM]
LFP6: @Hog Sorry :P [3:21 PM]
Elves: Tiger, the labs are definitely more complicated, just a sec I will link to you some walkthroughs [3:21 PM]
hoglahoo: maybe employees should be boldface during devchat :D [3:21 PM]
Astromon: haha [3:21 PM]
LFP6: Mmm, might get annoying though [3:21 PM]
Elves: hahaha [3:21 PM]
LFP6: Should be a little EteRNA logo by their name [3:21 PM]
Nando: @jnicol: I reviewed the puzzles and adapted the constraints to the new format [3:21 PM]
LFP6: Like foldit does [3:21 PM]
Elves: here is a link to the dev chat archives, which you can see by topic which ones have info on labs http://eternawiki.org/wiki/index.php5/Dev_Chat [3:21 PM]
Tigerlrg245: @Elves Thanks! ill have enough time untill next weak to get working on preparing for that [3:21 PM]
Elves: and here are two walkthroughs which are basically parallel [3:22 PM]
Elves: http://eternawiki.org/wiki/index.php5/2015.11.27_Community_Chat [3:22 PM]
jnicol: Hey Nando, let me know what you needed to change Im curious [3:22 PM]
jnicol: and does that mean I can make them active now? [3:23 PM]
Nando: essentially use the new compound constraint for lab requirements, and reference the new scripts for the MS2 states [3:23 PM]
Nando: gimme a sec to verify a couple things [3:23 PM]
jnicol: thanks for updating! [3:23 PM]
Jennifer Pearl: so i have small amount of news [3:24 PM]
Astromon: Thamks Nando! [3:24 PM]
Elves: http://eternawiki.org/wiki/index.php5/2015.10.30_Community_Chat [3:24 PM]
jnicol: Hi Jen, Elves, Astro and anyone else I missed [3:24 PM]
Elves: hi John! :D [3:24 PM]
Astromon: Hi jnicol [3:25 PM]
Elves: cool Jen what's up? [3:25 PM]
Jennifer Pearl: DPAT and Remmy are integrated now so should be ready for the next lab one this last rounds submissions are scored. [3:25 PM]
Jennifer Pearl: also looked over the current license stuff that was posted the other night in the forum and I may be releasing DPAT and REmmy soonish [3:25 PM]
jnicol: I prevented submissions of too easy puzzles [3:25 PM]
Jennifer Pearl: nee to talk iwth Elves about that though I think [3:26 PM]
Astromon: @jnicol speaking of your training wheels switch series, do you still beleive its best to boost first then follow the clues in the other state ? [3:26 PM]
Elves: awesome!! [3:26 PM]
jnicol: please dont abuse the puzzle making privileges with spacebar puzzles [3:26 PM]
Astromon: to start a switch puzzle? [3:26 PM]
Jennifer Pearl: once DPAT and Remmy are released I will discuss tehm more in depth with everyone [3:27 PM]
jnicol: Astro, that is only one method that I use, many players feel strongly on the way solve, use wheat works best for you [3:27 PM]
Astromon: oH okay! [3:27 PM]
Astromon: i like your idea about that [3:27 PM]
Astromon: it works [3:28 PM]
Astromon: osmetimes <> [3:28 PM]
Elves: Jen, the license is in progress, we can chat about this [3:29 PM]
Jennifer Pearl: i have to step away for a moment [3:29 PM]
Jennifer Pearl: work calls [3:30 PM]
Elves: k see you :) [3:30 PM]
Elves: Nando, new compound restraint? is that for a new kind of miRNA or something? [3:31 PM]
Elves: are we getting a new kind of lab? [3:31 PM]
Astromon: ?! [3:31 PM]
Nando: no, just this new icon with the tubes and the hand in the upper-left [3:31 PM]
Elves: ohh thanks [3:32 PM]
Nando: well, fingers [3:32 PM]
Jennifer Pearl: im back [3:32 PM]
jnicol: Elves, Nando combined several contraints in one icon as seen in the previous lab we had, http://www.eternagame.org/game/puzzle/6296743/ [3:33 PM]
Elves: welcome back Jen! [3:33 PM]
Astromon: way cool [3:33 PM]
Jennifer Pearl: so instead of a big row of contraints we have them all in one box? [3:33 PM]
Nando: @jnicol: apart from a bit of weirdness in the description (I think theres some HTML bug there), and a couple thumbnails not yet updated, this is good to go [3:33 PM]
Elves: ohhh thanks John! [3:33 PM]
Astromon: some i think jen [3:33 PM]
Elves: i like that, clever [3:33 PM]
jnicol: yes, thats Omei's updating :) [3:34 PM]
Astromon: indeed [3:34 PM]
Jennifer Pearl: nice [3:34 PM]
Astromon: the live chat was covering one up heheh [3:34 PM]
LFP6: I need to go eat dinner [3:34 PM]
Jennifer Pearl: see you LFP6 [3:34 PM]
Elves: enjoy LFP6! thanks for coming, and championing forums :D [3:34 PM]
LFP6: Elves, I'll get you that list in the next couple hours, just finding employees names through Wikipedia :P [3:34 PM]
Astromon: late lfp6 great to see you again and enjoy! [3:35 PM]
jnicol: I just made it live! [3:35 PM]
Astromon: oH really seeyall [3:35 PM]
Elves: ok cool, I will check in with who has what status so we make sure we don't remove privileges from those who are still helping [3:35 PM]
Astromon: haha joke [3:35 PM]
Elves: *high five* [3:35 PM]
Astromon: thanks guys! [3:36 PM]
Astromon: and gals<> [3:36 PM]
Elves: :D thanks Astro [3:36 PM]
Jennifer Pearl: im lookng at teh new lab now [3:37 PM]
Elves: welcome back Jen [3:37 PM]
Astromon: me too jen<< [3:37 PM]
Jennifer Pearl: are teh exclusion and Same state NG labs the same as last time? [3:37 PM]
jnicol: I've allowed 40 submissions per player, it may increase as we near the deadline [3:37 PM]
jnicol: The first 6 are the same [3:37 PM]
Jennifer Pearl: yes [3:37 PM]
Jennifer Pearl: im going to tweak Remmy to use the FMN vrs an Oligo and I can use REmmy and DPAt [3:38 PM]
Astromon: hmmM [3:38 PM]
Jennifer Pearl: DPAT for this lab [3:38 PM]
Jennifer Pearl: im sooooo happy [3:38 PM]
Jennifer Pearl: happy dance happy dance happy dance!!!! [3:38 PM]
Astromon: yay jen! [3:38 PM]
jnicol: We are also re-running the Cooperativity labs, so another 2 puzzles are coming [3:39 PM]
Astromon: awesome jn! [3:39 PM]
Jennifer Pearl: great [3:39 PM]
Jennifer Pearl: that is music to my ears [3:39 PM]
Astromon: so since state 2 has to make a cetain shape its prob best to work it in target mode eH? [3:40 PM]
Astromon: click cloud labs^ [3:41 PM]
jnicol: just started today, http://www.eternagame.org/web/labs/ [3:41 PM]
Elves: thanks John, and woohoo! [3:41 PM]
Elves: I see a little overlap in my browser fyi http://prntscr.com/9d4b01 [3:41 PM]
Elves: it looks like the description has a particular request for how to make submissions [3:42 PM]
Elves: please submit designs in sets of 6-12 [3:42 PM]
Astromon: oH? [3:42 PM]
Omei: lol! I'm still editing the description and quotas. [3:42 PM]
Astromon: oH [3:42 PM]
Elves: where each set of designs clusters around one hypothesis [3:42 PM]
Elves: ahh hehehe thanks Omei [3:42 PM]
jnicol: Sorry Omei :) I got impatient [3:43 PM]
Elves: I think it is in progress now then, sounds like labs will be live by the end of today [3:43 PM]
Omei: Understood. [3:43 PM]
Jennifer Pearl: that is great. very scientiific apprioach [3:43 PM]
Jennifer Pearl: i look forward to this lab [3:43 PM]
Jennifer Pearl: when is it going to close? [3:43 PM]
Omei: I wanted to get it ready for the meeting here; just got hung up by details. [3:43 PM]
Jennifer Pearl: there is a month cool [3:44 PM]
jnicol: if you are on firefox you may need to clear cache [3:44 PM]
Elves: so to make your own mini experiment in this lab, basically you think of a hypothesis to test, and submit a batch of 6-12 designs, where half of them do have the factor that proves your hypothesis, and the... [3:44 PM]
...other half does not have that factor and ideally fails the hypothesis
Astromon: hmmM? [3:45 PM]
Omei: That's the ideal, yes. To actually run controlled mini-experiments. [3:45 PM]
Elves: Omei thanks for putting in all that work to get the description sorted. clarifying details is good, since we will get better results that way [3:45 PM]
Astromon: cooL [3:45 PM]
Omei: But players who find that intimidating can still submit designs. [3:46 PM]
Astromon: click the second icon bottom left [3:46 PM]
Astromon: i dont see the DPAT [3:48 PM]
Jennifer Pearl: i have a few things i wnat to try with Remmy. Can I make a couple of accounts to get more designs in? [3:48 PM]
Jennifer Pearl: for the labs? [3:48 PM]
Jennifer Pearl: i dont think I will have a hard time getting at least 100 designs with Remmy and DPAT together [3:48 PM]
Elves: Jen I think if you do that and just let John know which ones are the redundant accounts, then if the slots do not fill up with other player submissions and we have room, that would be a great use of those slots [3:49 PM]
Tigerlrg245: wow, labs by the end of today? is it just a showcase of what's going to be or can we start submitting then? [3:48 PM]
jnicol: Jen, pm me the details [3:49 PM]
Jennifer Pearl: for each lab...maybe even more [3:49 PM]
Jennifer Pearl: ok [3:49 PM]
Jennifer Pearl: I have a few ideas. need to write write them out still but I will send you a PM later [3:49 PM]
Omei: You should be able to start submitting now. It's just the details that aren't completed. [3:50 PM]
Tigerlrg245: Allright. i better hit the walkthrough now [3:50 PM]
Elves: Jen, Remmy will be such a huge help to get working for community entering batches into labs, so this is really exciting [3:51 PM]
Elves: thanks for moving it forward!! [3:51 PM]
Elves: :) [3:51 PM]
Omei: But warning: The actual limit on designs/puzzle is going to start at 20, not 40. [3:51 PM]
Omei: That;s one of the details. :-) [3:51 PM]
Jennifer Pearl: ok I will have to pick designs to base off of carefully [3:51 PM]
Jennifer Pearl: or modify i mean [3:51 PM]
jnicol: Omei, you sure yo uonly want 20? [3:52 PM]
Omei: That's just for starters. [3:52 PM]
Elves: Tiger good luck! [3:52 PM]
jnicol: It may get lower ? :) [3:52 PM]
Jennifer Pearl: i think 40 would be better or is there a reason to start with 20 [3:52 PM]
Nando: @LFP6 (and anyone else interested): in case you haven't seen it yet http://www.eternagame.org/web/blog/6372791/ [3:52 PM]
Elves: thanks Nando!! [3:53 PM]
Omei: We'll raise it as we go along depending on how productive the indivual puzzles seem to be. [3:53 PM]
Omei: No, we'll only raiase, never lower. [3:53 PM]
Jennifer Pearl: go back to the old days of 1 [3:54 PM]
Jennifer Pearl: 1 design a week [3:54 PM]
Omei: Eli and I discussed this in length. What's special is that some of these puzzles may be busts. [3:54 PM]
Omei: Oh. 20 per puzzle, not 20 overall. Sorry I didn't make that clear. [3:55 PM]
John Cook: Hello all [3:55 PM]
Jennifer Pearl: hi John [3:56 PM]
Jennifer Pearl: how are you [3:56 PM]
Astromon: im trying to get the shape correct in the second then make it not the shape in the first after<< before the ms2 placement< [3:56 PM]
Astromon: Hi jon [3:56 PM]
Elves: hello! [3:56 PM]
John Cook: Catching up on the discussion.... but I have some questions too... [3:56 PM]
Omei: By starting all puzzles off low, we can raise the limit for productive puzzles, and not risk leaving out designs that have already been submitted on less productive puzzles. [3:57 PM]
John Cook: What is the prevailing encoding standard for RNA. For example when the labs are sent out what is the digital standard that the results come back in. [3:57 PM]
John Cook: ? [3:57 PM]
Jennifer Pearl: @Omei so are we using the max throouoghput of the arrays [3:57 PM]
Jennifer Pearl: throughput [3:58 PM]
Jennifer Pearl: i heard the max was 8000 designs at t time [3:58 PM]
Elves: welcome John! we are just wrapping up this community chat, and the next dev chat is in one week on Friday, at 3pm PST, and the devs and scientists will be present to ask questions of that nature [3:58 PM]
Elves: ( or maybe one of them is still here and knows... :D ) [3:58 PM]
Omei: I think this project is going to get 8000 slots. There will be another for a Cooperative rerun, with 2000. [3:59 PM]
Tigerlrg245: Let me get this straight, the idea in labs is to get a stable sequence with all the requirements, and with the lowest kcl as possible? [3:59 PM]
Omei: 10000 is the target; it's not really a hard limit, but more designs means less precise data. [3:59 PM]
John Cook: I know... I know... Was in transit today from EST to CST. Oops [3:59 PM]
Tigerlrg245: or is there another aspect of which a design will be considered better? [3:59 PM]
jnicol: the max is 12,472, but some are used by Das Labs for controls, etc [4:00 PM]
Jennifer Pearl: ok thanks Omei and jnicol [4:00 PM]
Omei: Tx john; I didn't know that fact. [4:00 PM]
Elves: thank you John and Omei! [4:01 PM]
