2015.09.04 Community Chat
( Link back to Dev Chat archive )
On XOR Constraints, Lab Prev/Next Buttons, & Nando's Dev Updates
jandersonlee: undev chat time? [3:03 PM]
Elves: hello friends and gentlefolders, what are we going to learn about today? [3:03 PM]
Astromon: Hi [3:03 PM]
Elves: hi janderson! a very merry undev chat to you :D [3:04 PM]
Elves: hi astromon! [3:04 PM]
Astromon: i want to learn more about dot plots and data reading [3:04 PM]
RedSpah: hi Elves, JLee [3:04 PM]
Elves: hi Red! :) [3:04 PM]
jandersonlee: g'd afternoon all (even'g nando) [3:04 PM]
Elves: me too Astromon. alas our favorite Jen Pearl is at work today but maybe someone else has a fun topic to explore? [3:04 PM]
Astromon: okay [3:05 PM]
whbob: good evening everyone:) [3:06 PM]
Astromon: i had the idea to be able to screen shot our data stats in chat thats all i have this week i think [3:06 PM]
Elves: hello whbob! welcome to player chat [3:06 PM]
Elves: what kind of data stats astromon? [3:06 PM]
Astromon: in the labs the stats [3:06 PM]
Astromon: if i could screen shot it to chat [3:07 PM]
Astromon: someone w more knowlege could help me read it [3:07 PM]
Elves: my favorite screenshot tool is lightshot because it is cross platform, free, and lets you markup the image with text and arrows and circles etc [3:07 PM]
Elves: https://app.prntscr.com/en/index.html [3:08 PM]
Astromon: okay i dl it i just need to make it work np Thanks [3:08 PM]
Elves: thanks to someone at eterna who first shared, been so long i forgot! but it is really handy [3:08 PM]
Elves: np! [3:08 PM]
whbob: I was wondering what everyone used to mark up images. [3:09 PM]
Astromon: yeah xness made an ilastraition for me with the light shot was very helpful [3:09 PM]
Astromon: oh i think thier mouse somehow [3:10 PM]
Elves: Astromon can you please link the lab that you would like to review data for? [3:11 PM]
Astromon: i would like a search box uptop where i can search for things like :Bar code" [3:11 PM]
Astromon: just the specs [3:11 PM]
whbob: I'm waiting to see the results from miRNA switch lab Round3 and the labs are way past that now. [3:12 PM]
Astromon: r97? [3:12 PM]
Astromon: they will be out soon i heard by the end of the week [3:12 PM]
Elves: @whbob I'm not sure if it's the same lab, this may be the explanation of the delay: http://www.eternagame.org/web/news/6153537/ [3:13 PM]
Astromon: i would like for someone to write a comprehensive guide of all the constraints and what they mean [3:13 PM]
Astromon: sheesh im asking alot sry [3:13 PM]
hoglahoo: no problem we'll get someone right on that for you [3:14 PM]
Elves: Eli Fisker has written many helpful guides which you can find here: http://www.eternagame.org/web/player/8627/ [3:14 PM]
Astromon: Thanks haglahoo [3:14 PM]
hoglahoo: *looks at Nando* thanks man! :D [3:14 PM]
Elves: try searching the page for a keyword about your question [3:14 PM]
Astromon: lol [3:14 PM]
whbob: @Elves: Yes, that's why. [3:14 PM]
Astromon: oH yeah thats true [3:14 PM]
Elves: @whbob cool thanks for clarifying! [3:15 PM]
Elves: @astromon are you specifically wondering about the constraints for XOR style puzzles? I've been away from labs for a while, so I'm still catching up myself [3:15 PM]
Astromon: yeah but i can ask at another time one of my friends will help [3:16 PM]
Astromon: i dont want to take up to much time here [3:16 PM]
Elves: thank you for being courteous! much appreciated. fortunately today we don't have a specific presentation scheduled, so it is open player chat. if anyone would like to lead on a topic they are welcome to speak... [3:17 PM]
...up. and otherwise, we can look into XOR constraints
Astromon: well whats a barcode [3:18 PM]
jandersonlee: .barcode [3:17 PM]
jandersonlee: (I guess not) [3:18 PM]
Astromon: lol i tried .constaints earlier [3:18 PM]
Elves: if i understand correctly, a barcode is a unique nucleotide sequence attached to the rest of a sequence design to identify one molecule from another [3:18 PM]
Nando: http://eternawiki.org/wiki/index.php5/Barcode [3:18 PM]
Elves: thanks Nando! [3:19 PM]
Astromon: cool thanks [3:19 PM]
hoglahoo: sorry, linkbot is not dictionarybot [3:19 PM]
hoglahoo: I guess it could be with a little work [3:19 PM]
Elves: yes hoglahoo, merge the AIs together into superbot! [3:19 PM]
Astromon: Oh that would be cool [3:19 PM]
hoglahoo: who, me? [3:19 PM]
hoglahoo: no I mean I guess it could be with a little work by someone else! :D [3:20 PM]
Astromon: :) [3:20 PM]
jandersonlee: who else wants to bell the cat? [3:20 PM]
Nando: whistles and looks at the ceiling [3:20 PM]
Astromon: lol [3:21 PM]
Astromon: i better keep quet before i make an enemy or two [3:21 PM]
jandersonlee: just curious - who if anyone is working on the StrategyMarket/Switch stuff and how is it coming? [3:21 PM]
jandersonlee: or is that a question for next week [3:21 PM]
Nando: it was Vineet, not sure what they're doing with it at the moment... [3:22 PM]
jandersonlee: thought so... :P [3:22 PM]
whbob: I have a question about lab submissions. [3:23 PM]
jandersonlee: we are open for submissionof questions [3:23 PM]
Astromon: yup [3:23 PM]
whbob: I create one or two lab puzzles and submit each, one at a time. [3:24 PM]
Astromon: after your question i have a sugestion of the lab design page [3:24 PM]
whbob: How do all of you submit a whole list in a row? [3:24 PM]
jandersonlee: puzzles or designs? [3:24 PM]
whbob: Designs. sorry [3:25 PM]
Astromon: so happens no one is submiting at the same time [3:25 PM]
Astromon: to interupt the sequence [3:25 PM]
Astromon: write # then 2 3 4 5 [3:25 PM]
jandersonlee: I don't think there is a bulk upload form [3:25 PM]
Astromon: or a b c d [3:25 PM]
Astromon: it is one at a time as far as i know [3:26 PM]
jandersonlee: I sometimes save designs in a file, then go back and submit with cut and paste [3:26 PM]
Astromon: I would like to be able to scroll down the design list [3:26 PM]
Astromon: instead of the bar on the side is too sensitive [3:26 PM]
jandersonlee: I'd like to have a next/prev option while in the viewer [3:26 PM]
jandersonlee: so you don't have to back out to the list and back in again [3:27 PM]
Astromon: yeah agreed @janderson [3:27 PM]
whbob: So, I might copy a design to notepad, not submit and repeat the process? Then go back & paste each line? [3:28 PM]
jandersonlee: would help with lab review before and after [3:27 PM]
jandersonlee: @whbob - yes [3:27 PM]
whbob: Thanks:) [3:28 PM]
Astromon: isnt it easier just to submit the mod [3:28 PM]
jandersonlee: I especially do that when I'm running external analysis tools to preselect some [3:28 PM]
Astromon: when found? [3:28 PM]
Astromon: oH [3:29 PM]
Elves: hmm did the XOR post in the forums with the logic table get eaten? om nom nommerwhere did it go? that might help explain the constraints [3:29 PM]
Astromon: yummy [3:30 PM]
Elves: ahhh here we go https://getsatisfaction.com/eternagame/topics/our-first-multi-input-puzzle [3:30 PM]
Elves: first step in finding something is to declare it is lost! also searching for XOR did not return it as a result [3:31 PM]
whbob: I've been working on the challenge 4way switch, but can't get the MS2 to slide when I want it to:( [3:31 PM]
Astromon: ah nice link saved it<< [3:31 PM]
Elves: in that thread i added a screenshot of the constraints mapped to the logic table https://d2r1vs3d9006ap.cloudfront.net/s3_images/1158167/Xorgateexplanation.png?1424189621 [3:32 PM]
jandersonlee: don't worry if you can't solve it. some of my better designs tend to be mods rather than denovo solves [3:32 PM]
Astromon: Oh way cool good info Thanks @elves [3:33 PM]
Elves: np! [3:33 PM]
jandersonlee: (same as in FoldIT) [3:34 PM]
jandersonlee: stand on the sholders of slightly taller folks [3:35 PM]
whbob: The table looks like the constraints for puzzle 6096060. [3:35 PM]
Astromon: Ah yeah i rem that puzzle well [3:36 PM]
Astromon: its funny this oneproposed lab has no more than 3 g's in a row [3:37 PM]
Astromon: but it has 4 locked g's in the puz [3:37 PM]
Astromon: i have been trying to rip them apart somehow lol [3:37 PM]
Elves: hmm that's funny. i would assume locked are exempt [3:38 PM]
Astromon: oH [3:38 PM]
Astromon: well its not checked green [3:38 PM]
Elves: but if not submittable once otherwise solved then maybe it is a bug! can you complete the rest? [3:39 PM]
Astromon: so i assumed its not exept [3:39 PM]
Astromon: exempt* [3:39 PM]
Nando: @JL: about the next/prev thing, I've been trying to think out of the box, and I think we should perhaps question the way things work globally... this could be the topic of a GetSat discussion, but briefly, I wonder why does the applet switch views when all modern browsers support tabs [3:39 PM]
Astromon: havt got tjhat far yet [3:39 PM]
Astromon: if it makes the labs ill look into it more [3:40 PM]
Astromon: oh i have a dumb question [3:41 PM]
Astromon: er it seems dumb [3:41 PM]
Elves: @JL & Nando I second the next/prev buttons in whatever implementation makes sense, going back & forth to reload page takes time & clicking [3:41 PM]
Astromon: what it says must fold to structure in white outline...What white outline? [3:41 PM]
Astromon: when* [3:41 PM]
jandersonlee: @Nando - agreed, but I'd still like to switch the sequences quickly without the overhead of firing up ane new Flash instance - you can cut and paste a sequence, why not next/prev? [3:41 PM]
Elves: @astro, about the locked 4 Gs I would try to complete the rest of the constraints and see if you can submit, and if not take screenshot and submit as bug in forums, link during dev chat [3:42 PM]
Nando: @all: before I leave for the staff meeting, I'd like to reiterate my earlier request: please try the http://nando.eternadev.org/game/puzzle/3389696/ puzzle and send me a PM with any feedback (GUI, the puzzle iteself, etc) [3:42 PM]
Astromon: ok [3:42 PM]
Elves: @astro the white outline in the top constraints box[es] I think [3:43 PM]
Elves: thanks Nando!! and happy meeting to you [3:43 PM]
Astromon: yeah sometimes there is no white ouline so is why i ask [3:43 PM]
Nando: @JL: because the viewer is not currently linked to the design list, and it has no idea it is presenting an already submitted design either [3:43 PM]
Astromon: its all purple sometimes [3:43 PM]
Elves: @astro the color changes when constraints are not met so the goal is to make it white i think, but i may be missing something since a few UI things have changed since i did labs [3:44 PM]
whbob: Thanks Nando. [3:44 PM]
jandersonlee: @Nando - i realize that's the current limitation and wish it wasn't [3:44 PM]
Astromon: cool i have been getting by w/o understanding it but if my test scores are low i will have to study it further [3:45 PM]
Nando: @JL: I'll try to find a way around it, but can't promise much... [3:45 PM]
jandersonlee: @Nado. all I can hope for - thanks [3:45 PM]
jandersonlee: @Nando rather [3:45 PM]
Nando: cya guys, afk [3:45 PM]
jandersonlee: bye Nando [3:45 PM]
Elves: bye Nando! :) [3:46 PM]
Elves: with the remaining time, I encourage everyone to check out Nando's updates that he just linked at http://nando.eternadev.org/game/puzzle/3389696/ [3:46 PM]
Astromon: late nando [3:46 PM]
Astromon: cool thanks Elves nice to meet you [3:46 PM]
Astromon: how did u gret those colors [3:46 PM]
Elves: happy to help! and nice to meet you too [3:46 PM]
Elves: i waltzed through a rainbow during the magic hour [3:47 PM]
Astromon: lol [3:47 PM]
Astromon: nice [3:47 PM]
Astromon: great answer indeed [3:47 PM]
Elves: okay this is pretty cute: http://prntscr.com/8cozkh [3:47 PM]
Astromon: thats my fav [3:48 PM]
Astromon: i lol everytime he makes that face [3:48 PM]
Astromon: couse i realize i just painted out the needed sequence [3:48 PM]
Elves: hehehe [3:49 PM]
Elves: http://prntscr.com/8cp05c [3:49 PM]
Astromon: hes not a meter he is only good while very happy [3:49 PM]
Elves: so the landing page for the puzzle outlines the basics that you mentioned earlier, astro, with the state outlines and contraints [3:49 PM]
Astromon: landing page whats that [3:50 PM]
Astromon: oH nvm [3:51 PM]
Astromon: i c [3:51 PM]
Elves: click on nando's link to proposed updates http://nando.eternadev.org/game/puzzle/3389696/ [3:51 PM]
Astromon: Okay [3:52 PM]
Elves: and then once you go past the landing page, you can see those elements of constraints, white outline, and state 1 & 2 toggle http://prntscr.com/8cp0yq [3:52 PM]
whbob: I'll try to use the GS multi-input puzzle tips on Nando's puzzle:) [3:52 PM]
Astromon: what is that link on the landing page [3:52 PM]
Astromon: up top [3:52 PM]
Elves: and I see you are right, the white changed to purple. but i think that is temporary, until all constraints are met [3:52 PM]
Astromon: a/b (and not) [3:53 PM]
Astromon: simplified [3:53 PM]
Elves: good question, that simply goes back to the source page for the puzzle [3:53 PM]
Astromon: oH okay elves [3:53 PM]
Astromon: oH ok [3:53 PM]
Elves: so when you browse a list of puzzles, you would see source page with description like that link [3:53 PM]
Elves: then you click play puzzle and get the landing screen [3:54 PM]
Astromon: aH [3:54 PM]
Elves: then you enter the puzzle and begin! [3:54 PM]
Astromon: this weeklt meeting is a great thing thanks for heading the meetings [3:54 PM]
Elves: sometimes there is useful info in the description, so the link is at the top of the puzzle so you can go back to it [3:54 PM]
Astromon: yes very usful info indeed [3:55 PM]
Astromon: especialy jnicols switch series [3:55 PM]
Astromon: inparticular the training wheels puzzles [3:55 PM]
Elves: happy to help! and every other week is player led chat like this one, so please feel free to come ask questions, learn, share, and teach :D [3:55 PM]
Astromon: 3 l 3 m and 3n [3:55 PM]
Astromon: I certainly will [3:56 PM]
Astromon: it kind of came upon me today lol [3:56 PM]
Elves: yes, I can't believe it has already been a whole week since last friday lol. time travel! what a concept. :D [3:56 PM]
Astromon: i will start to write down questions i have as i stuble upon then throu out the week [3:57 PM]
Astromon: time flies indeed [3:57 PM]
Elves: awesome! and if you find bugs, feel free to submit in the forum, and then it is easy to give devs a link during dev chat [3:57 PM]
whbob: Confused which is TB-A & TB-B? [3:58 PM]
Elves: you can also ask questions there too, and many players who know more than I do may stumble upon and be able to help [3:58 PM]
Astromon: oH ok [3:58 PM]
Astromon: me 2 bob [3:58 PM]
Astromon: i was going to bond with one to see [3:59 PM]
rhiju: Hi everybody! (i was able to come in near the end). Elves -- could you possibly post a chatlog? Devs will want to review minimally the discussion of lab uploading/viewing ... [3:59 PM]
Elves: hey sure thing! was just playing with Nando's wonderful new toys [3:59 PM]
Astromon: Hi rhiju [3:59 PM]
whbob: Hi rhiju. [4:00 PM]
hoglahoo: @whbob, hover your cursor over the oligos to see the mouseover identifying text [4:00 PM]
hoglahoo: hi Rhiju [4:00 PM]
Astromon: oH the specs are floating on the puzzle ui now way cool [4:00 PM]
hoglahoo: by cursor I meant pointer [4:01 PM]
whbob: Cool! [4:01 PM]
Astromon: oH cool [4:01 PM]
Astromon: garsh i thought b was a [4:02 PM]
Astromon: and a was b [4:02 PM]
Astromon: haha [4:02 PM]
Astromon: when in doubt hover over w/ mouse pionter [4:03 PM]
whbob: In the last lab, the two TB miRNA's worked well with each other in the same area. Maybe these will also:) [4:04 PM]
Elves: transcriptus pocus! http://eternawiki.org/wiki/index.php5/2015.09.04_Community_Chat [4:05 PM]
whbob: Well, thank you , everyone. Have a great evening:) [4:06 PM]
Astromon: you 2 bob seeya around [4:07 PM]
Elves: thanks for participating whbob, astro, hogla, nando, janderson, everyone! [4:07 PM]
Astromon: Thank you ELVES! [4:07 PM]
Elves: hehehe :D :D :D you're welcome! [4:08 PM]
hoglahoo: no problem - I didn't realize it was a scheduled chat, I'm always here :D [4:08 PM]
Astromon: lol [4:08 PM]
hoglahoo: thanks, come again anytime [4:08 PM]
Astromon: me 2 [4:08 PM]
hoglahoo: maybe if I'd read the news [4:08 PM]
Elves: hoglahoo, guardian of the rna realms, architect of the botlings [4:08 PM]
Astromon: yeah i was aware it was coming up but i forgot [4:09 PM]
Elves: yep every friday now, from 3-4 PST is a meeting for alternating dev chat & community chat [4:09 PM]
Astromon: 6-7 eastern [4:09 PM]
hoglahoo: ah, cool. easy to remember then [4:09 PM]
Elves: http://eternawiki.org/wiki/index.php5/Dev_Chat [4:09 PM]
hoglahoo: scheduled chat every friday same time [4:10 PM]
Elves: exactomundo [4:10 PM]
Astromon: same bat time same bat channel [4:10 PM]
Elves: hahaha!! i love that, yes [4:10 PM]
hoglahoo: I wonder if would be too distracting to have a little note at the top of the chat window with that, since it's a permanently recurring event [4:10 PM]
Astromon: i wouldnt think so hogla good idea [4:11 PM]
Astromon: or make it colorful where it is so it stands out [4:11 PM]
Elves: hmm interesting idea hogla, i was also wondering about getting a help button by the chat window for easy access. [4:11 PM]
hoglahoo: yeah astromon, like a geocities page [4:11 PM]
Elves: i'll update the transcript with the suggestion, i like it. [4:12 PM]
hoglahoo: as long as you're updating it anyway, how about just a countdown to next schedule chat instead [4:13 PM]
hoglahoo: scheduled* [4:13 PM]
Astromon: a time clock [4:14 PM]
Astromon: running backwards [4:14 PM]
hoglahoo: it's in the wiki I guess I could toss in a late amendment myself [4:14 PM]
Elves: hahaha i was thinking countdown and was wondering if it would be feasible [4:14 PM]
hoglahoo: yes astromon, inside of a tardis [4:14 PM]
