2015.08.14 Dev Chat

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On Nupack Multithreading, Naming, About Page, Neuroscience Papers, Tutorials, Teslagon, & Font / Button UI, Oh My!


Nando: hi guys [3:02 PM]

whbob: Hi everyone. [3:03 PM]

jmf028: hi Nando [3:02 PM]

Brourd: Hello, Nando. [3:03 PM]

jmf028: hi whbob [3:02 PM]

hoglahoo: you just now logged in though [3:02 PM]

hoglahoo: hey Nando [3:03 PM]

jnicol: Hi Nando [3:03 PM]

Brourd: You can't prove anything! [3:03 PM]

Elves: hi Nando! hi everybody :) [3:03 PM]

hoglahoo: sure I can [3:03 PM]

jmf028: hi Elves [3:03 PM]

hoglahoo: but I'd rather say hello to these fine people [3:03 PM]

Elves: hulloooo! :D [3:03 PM]

hoglahoo: o/ [3:03 PM]

Brourd: hello, fine people. [3:03 PM]

jmf028: :D [3:03 PM]

Nando: if you guys don't mind, I'd like to share something about the logic gates lab [3:03 PM]

jmf028: I don't mind [3:04 PM]

Brourd: Did you finally make it faster? :P [3:04 PM]

Nando: more specifically, the slowness of Nupack, even after Adobe fixed their Flash player [3:04 PM]

Nando: I think I found out why it's slow [3:04 PM]

rhiju: hi everyone! thanks for coming. i was delayed due to slowness in flash loading the chat app. [3:04 PM]

jnicol: Hi rhiju [3:04 PM]

Nando: gimme a second to explain (I prepared what follows) [3:04 PM]

jmf028: XD [3:04 PM]

jmf028: hi rhiju [3:05 PM]

Nando: the Nupack code has a "frugal" philosophy about memory consumption: allocate only what's necessary and when it's necessary, deallocate as early as possible [3:05 PM]

Elves: hi! welcome back :) [3:05 PM]

Nando: this sounds very reasonable and that strategy makes perfect sense for a desktop or a cluster: the idea is to be able to run simultaneously as many processes as possible, and when cores are no issue, memory can easily become one, hence the whole "go easy on memory" idea [3:05 PM]

Nando: unfortunately, for a virtual platform like ours (Flash), it's the absolute worst option [3:05 PM]

Nando: to begin with, we can't exploit multiple cores, so the Nupack code is only wasting CPU time allocating and reallocating repeatedly [3:05 PM]

Nando: and to make things (much) worse, Flash/Alchemy's memory management (garbage collection) is terribly designed for this particular philosophy, for instance, one of the common performance recommendations for general Flash coding is to reuse allocated objects and avoid creating/deleting them [3:05 PM]

Nando: the good news is that I can probably do something about it, the less good one is that this is quite delicate work and it may take some time before I can release an update, as I need to make sure I haven't badly screwed things up... [3:05 PM]

jmf028: too fast [3:05 PM]

Nando: so, in a nutshell, it'll get better, I can't exactly tell by how much, but please be patient, I'm working on it [3:05 PM]

jmf028: alright reading now :D [3:06 PM]

hoglahoo: thanks [3:06 PM]

Elves: that's very interesting! [3:06 PM]

jnicol: sounds great nando [3:06 PM]

Elves: so flash inherently can't use multiple cores? or our current implementation? [3:06 PM]

rhiju: that's great detective work nando [3:06 PM]

whbob: Quality takes time [3:07 PM]

jmf028: at least the problem was found [3:07 PM]

rhiju: can we go through some of the agenda items? [3:07 PM]

rhiju: http://eternagame.org/web/news/6096508/ [3:07 PM]

jmf028: EteRNA [3:07 PM]

rhiju: perhaps start with some of the easy things, where devs could use feedback/discussion? [3:07 PM]

rhiju: hahaha  [3:08 PM]

jmf028: :D [3:08 PM]

rhiju: that was the first question i had [3:08 PM]

rhiju: Eterna is devs' preference [3:08 PM]

jmf028: hmm [3:08 PM]

rhiju: partly because people keep mispronouncing EteRNA to us [3:08 PM]

jmf028: ah [3:08 PM]

rhiju: they say "how is that e-t-e-r-n-a game going" [3:08 PM]

rhiju: like they spell it out [3:08 PM]

Elves: wow i hadn't thought of that [3:08 PM]

jmf028: well, the problem, which isn't really a problem, is that no one will know the rna in eterna is RNA [3:09 PM]

rhiju: not realizing that its supposed to be a word [3:09 PM]

rhiju: @jmf yea i know [3:09 PM]

jnicol: maybe if Sharif prettifies the logo, I could be swayed to EteRNA :) [3:09 PM]

jmf028: or have an asterisk and at the bottom of the page put the pronunciation xD [3:09 PM]

Elves: I like the style of EteRNA, but that's an interesting issue [3:09 PM]

rhiju: There's aprecedent for changing the name of an amazing thing like this [3:10 PM]

hoglahoo: yet everyone knows how to pronounce iPhone [3:10 PM]

rhiju: UNIX --> Unix [3:10 PM]

hoglahoo: and eBay [3:10 PM]

jmf028: unics [3:10 PM]

jmf028: oh [3:10 PM]

jmf028: maybe I shouldn't go there [3:10 PM]

jmf028: hmm [3:10 PM]

jmf028: go with eterna [3:11 PM]

rhiju: Also, in the future (not near, but perhaps in 2016) we may start working on not-RNA [3:11 PM]

Elves: ahhhh [3:11 PM]

Brourd: Etedna? [3:11 PM]

jmf028: needing to know RNA is in eterna isn't as important as the pronunciation [3:11 PM]

Elves: that is more compelling [3:11 PM]

jnicol: RNA+ [3:11 PM]

rhiju: lol brourd [3:11 PM]

rhiju: EterNA [3:11 PM]

Brourd: Works for me! [3:11 PM]

jmf028: nice [3:11 PM]

jmf028: can't mispronounce that [3:12 PM]

jmf028: Eter North America [3:12 PM]

rhiju: OK, I see there aren't superstrong feelings either way [3:12 PM]

Elves: Lol [3:12 PM]

rhiju: lol [3:12 PM]

Elves: I also like eterna all lower case since it has a little style and is easier to type [3:12 PM]

jmf028: I agree [3:13 PM]

Elves: so you know, just to make all 3 options back on the table again :D [3:13 PM]

jmf028: If not eteRNA, then go with eterna [3:13 PM]

rhiju: Yea, but I think we're supposed to capitalize proper names [3:13 PM]

jmf028: Eterna [3:14 PM]

rhiju: Can you think of projects/games that do not have capital names? [3:14 PM]

hoglahoo: iPhone [3:14 PM]

hoglahoo: eBay [3:14 PM]

jmf028: XD [3:14 PM]

jmf028: that was fast [3:14 PM]

Elves: yes it's an issue in print, often lower case brands get capitalized anyway and people get confused [3:14 PM]

jmf028: Eterna then [3:14 PM]

rhiju: @hoglahoo, yea good point [3:14 PM]

rhiju: anyone have an issue with Eterna? [3:14 PM]

jmf028: nope [3:14 PM]

rhiju: ok, next thing on the list [3:15 PM]

rhiju: invitation to write a review on big data, screens, neuroscience. [3:15 PM]

rhiju: Let me paste in the invitation... (will take a second) [3:15 PM]

jmf028: how does one go about that [3:15 PM]

Elves: yes whatever does that mean? :D  [3:15 PM]

rhiju: OK here goes: [3:16 PM]

rhiju:  I am a Guest Editor for a Special Issue on “Functional Genomics and High Content Screening in the Nervous System” at Molecular and Cellular Neuroscience (MCN).  I know you are not primarily neuroscience, but if you could put a neuro 'spin' on some of your work, that would be fine.  Want to submit a paper?  Perhaps you have a big-data or screening-related paper in the works?  If you are intereste [3:16 PM]

rhiju: I said that my lab does not have anything, but i asked permission to survey the eterna community [3:17 PM]

hoglahoo: It may have cut off [3:17 PM]

jmf028: looking up the word intereste [3:17 PM]

Elves: :D I studied neuroscience.... I am intereste [3:17 PM]

jmf028: lol [3:17 PM]

rhiju: aha , let me paste in batches [3:17 PM]

rhiju: "I am a Guest Editor for a Special Issue on “Functional Genomics and High Content Screening in the Nervous System” at Molecular and Cellular Neuroscience (MCN).  " [3:17 PM]

rhiju: "I know you are not primarily neuroscience, but if you could put a neuro 'spin' on some of your work, that would be fine.  Want to submit a paper?  " [3:17 PM]

rhiju: "Perhaps you have a big-data or screening-related paper in the works?  If you are interested, let me know so I can list you as a contributor. " [3:18 PM]

jmf028: I would totally contribute, but where am I supposed to start? [3:18 PM]

rhiju: question is -- do you know any players who have 'day jobs' in neuroscience and might take the lead in putting together a perspective? [3:19 PM]

rhiju: i figure that's unlikely, but thought its worth floating to the community. [3:19 PM]

jmf028: um... David Eagleman? [3:19 PM]

jmf028: is he a player here? [3:19 PM]

jmf028: :P [3:19 PM]

hoglahoo: lol [3:19 PM]

rhiju: :) [3:19 PM]

rhiju: @jmf028 seriously if this is your area and you could come up witha pitch, let me know.  [3:20 PM]

jmf028: whelp, guess that means next topic [3:20 PM]

rhiju: yup [3:20 PM]

jmf028: I would try, but I am currently unemployed [3:20 PM]

rhiju: two topics i think we can postpone until the next dev chat when bekeep will be here [3:21 PM]

Elves: i don't have a day job in neuroscience but i have a degree in psychopharmacology, and studied neuroscience and biochem of the brain [3:21 PM]

rhiju: ok back to neuro [3:21 PM]

Elves: :D [3:22 PM]

rhiju: one cool paper would be to get practicing neuroscientists to brainstorm what an eterna-like project could be for neuro. (coming at it another way what could be something ilke eyewire but with actual experiments) [3:22 PM]

rhiju: anyway, PM me if you think of something! [3:22 PM]

jmf028: I've been in many sciences and majored in biomedical, but nothing in nueroscience [3:22 PM]

jmf028: guess right now machinelves is the best candidate [3:23 PM]

rhiju:  for 'help from players to shape puzzles into tutorials', bekeep is accumulating very valuable feedback on getsat -- let me find the link [3:23 PM]

rhiju: https://getsatisfaction.com/eternagame/topics/new-puzzle-progression [3:23 PM]

Elves: i will. i quit because the scientific method is used as newspaper in the pharm industry, so I'd love to see more rigorous methods of researching medicines [3:23 PM]

rhiju: for player help on puzzles/tutorials, we are revising the route into labs for eterna-medicine [3:24 PM]

rhiju: we still need some help thinking of what puzzles should be presented once players get into the labs -- [3:24 PM]

rhiju: you can see (and comment on) ben's google doc: [3:24 PM]

Elves: did you guys ever get the link to Mat747 & Eli's list? [3:24 PM]

jmf028: I saw it [3:24 PM]

rhiju: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1UL0hDeM5EwzxRz0gJtoR890JYRN6zRIiWW2K9Ex_0yA/edit?usp=sharing [3:24 PM]

Elves: they sent to previous architects of tutorial plan? [3:24 PM]

jmf028: ah makes sense [3:25 PM]

jmf028: so need to fill in some of the suggested puzzles [3:25 PM]

jmf028: ? [3:25 PM]

rhiju: @elves, yes bekeep has the list and i think its in the getsat post [3:25 PM]

rhiju: @jmf028 exactly. we need suggestions for filling in puzzles [3:25 PM]

Nando: @rhiju: I published the eternabot scorer prototype on prod today, fyi [3:26 PM]

jmf028: will look into it [3:26 PM]

Elves: cool, thanks. i saw a note of someone requesting the link and wasn't sure [3:26 PM]

rhiju: actually there are several blank boxes in that google doc where we need suggestions. need special help in late stages. [3:26 PM]

jmf028: the key, nando? [3:26 PM]

Nando: yes jmf [3:26 PM]

Elves: nice doc! [3:26 PM]

rhiju: what's the key? [3:26 PM]

Nando: http://eterna.cmu.edu/web/puzzle/6109463/ [3:27 PM]

jmf028: eternabot scoring puzzle [3:27 PM]

rhiju: ah, the key [3:27 PM]

jmf028: or the sideways F [3:27 PM]

rhiju: yes, ben has on the list eternabot scoring puzzles, but not a filled-out progression of puzzles.  [3:27 PM]

rhiju: sonogram [3:28 PM]

rhiju: for 'using social media (FB/Twitter)', this was a plyer suggestion for a topic, and ben has been thinking about this a lot as well. [3:28 PM]

rhiju: i think he will request player input on a proposed social strategy  for eterna-medicine in the next month or so. [3:29 PM]

jmf028: linkedin [3:29 PM]

rhiju: is jennifer pearl here to talk about 'about' page? [3:29 PM]

jmf028: can you put eterna on linkedin, or is it not 'comany' enough [3:30 PM]

jmf028: ? [3:30 PM]

Brourd: She does not appear to be on at the current time. [3:30 PM]

jmf028: company* [3:30 PM]

jmf028: actually, nvm [3:30 PM]

rhiju: @jmf, interesting idea.  [3:31 PM]

jmf028: well maybe [3:31 PM]

rhiju: OK, for about page, what was discussed on the getsat link was pretty useful -- [3:31 PM]

rhiju: https://getsatisfaction.com/eternagame/topics/call-for-open-discussion-on-updating-the-eterna-about-page [3:31 PM]

rhiju: thanks to all who have been contributing there. [3:31 PM]

rhiju: ok what else? [3:32 PM]

rhiju: for the other stuff, we also have getsat threads, and they are working well, although more thoughts form the community would be great. [3:33 PM]

Elves: i can contribute to this and the license discussion next week, this week was too packed for me [3:33 PM]

rhiju: OK, will look forward to your thoughts @elves -- both very timely. [3:33 PM]

rhiju: so [3:33 PM]

rhiju: how about that teslagon [3:33 PM]

Elves: happy to hep! [3:33 PM]

Elves: help lol [3:33 PM]

jmf028: 3 solvers :D [3:34 PM]

jmf028: other than wawan [3:34 PM]

jmf028: Hog, Tesla (of course), and me [3:34 PM]

Elves: ahahaha i did actually try it for a few minutes before my mac overheated. will try on my PC once settled. [3:34 PM]

Elves: congrats!! [3:34 PM]

jmf028: thanks [3:34 PM]

rhiju: yea, that was a crazy challenge [3:34 PM]

Elves: any advice? [3:35 PM]

jmf028: Tesla's partials [3:35 PM]

rhiju: as vineet mentinoed in his post, we're trying to write up a paper based on player insights into what makes some puzzles unusually hard [3:35 PM]

jmf028: misfolding [3:35 PM]

Elves: lol [3:35 PM]

Elves: are we going to synth the teslagon solves? [3:36 PM]

rhiju: over the next months, we're going to be trying to get going on the followup paper where we try to create an algorithm to solve all the puzzles that hog, tesla, and jmf already can solve [3:36 PM]

rhiju: of course we want to do it in collaboration with them. [3:36 PM]

jmf028: small areas where the structures are similar but have very few pairs to mess with [3:36 PM]

rhiju: we're very pumped about that [3:36 PM]

Elves: solve according to an algorithm or solve according to lab data or both? [3:36 PM]

rhiju: i don't think we'll synth teslagon solves right away -- we are working on trying to increase the lengths of the RNAs we synthesize, however. [3:37 PM]

rhiju: @elves, first according to an algorithm. [3:37 PM]

rhiju: we have a separate initiative to improve solving according to lab data. [3:37 PM]

jnicol: but, these puzzles will not have any constraints, correct? [3:37 PM]

rhiju: they might go into the same paper though [3:37 PM]

Elves: ahhh cool. well increased length = increased complexity, which i assume will make it even harder but who knows [3:37 PM]

Elves: cool thanks for clarification [3:37 PM]

jnicol: that is whole different level [3:37 PM]

rhiju: @elves, right, that's an open question. our current design rules for in vitro solves might well extend to longer RNAs without a hitch. but probably not. [3:38 PM]

jmf028: did anyone ever answer macclark's question about being unable to get polyC tails to synthecize in his lab [3:39 PM]

jmf028: ? [3:39 PM]

rhiju: is there a link to that question? i must have missed that  [3:39 PM]

jmf028: he mentioned in chat [3:39 PM]

jmf028: I don't have a link :( [3:39 PM]

rhiju: one issue is that we make the RNA by transcribing from  double stranded DNA [3:40 PM]

rhiju: and so a long stretch of poly(C) means that there is a partner DNA strand with poly(G) [3:40 PM]

jmf028: basically, he was asking is there a way to get the sequences to synthesize with polyC tails without them misfolding [3:40 PM]

rhiju: and poly(G) DNA 'behaves badly'. As in, some polymerases don't like to copy it during PCR [3:41 PM]

rhiju: Was the question about being able to make poly(C)? Or that we can make it but it never folds right? [3:41 PM]

jmf028: that we can make it but it never folds right [3:41 PM]

RedSpah: Hi All [3:42 PM]

jmf028: hi red [3:42 PM]

rhiju: Oh, hmm, interesting [3:42 PM]

rhiju: Hi Red [3:42 PM]

Elves: hi red! [3:42 PM]

RedSpah: hi jmf, rhiju [3:42 PM]

RedSpah: and rainbowelves [3:42 PM]

Elves: :D [3:42 PM]

Nando: which lab was that jmf? [3:42 PM]

rhiju: before we forget, this would be a good time to thank some of the devs [3:42 PM]

jmf028: oh no, this is macclark's lab in his class [3:42 PM]

rhiju: jnicol and especially nando bugged adobe to get flash fixed [3:43 PM]

jmf028: sorry for the confusion lol [3:43 PM]

rhiju: and we're back in action [3:43 PM]

jmf028: yes thanks guys [3:43 PM]

rhiju: and we lost the wiki server earlier this week, but jnicol revived it [3:43 PM]

Elves: wow! thanks very much for being proactive [3:43 PM]

rhiju: so thanks to both of you a lot. [3:43 PM]

Elves: hi five jnicol & Nando!! [3:43 PM]

rhiju: also, if vineet is online, you can thank him in advance for some cool stuff about to happen [3:43 PM]

Brourd: About to happen in the next week? [3:44 PM]

jmf028: ah, leave us with a cliffhanger [3:44 PM]

rhiju: vineet, can you post a link? [3:44 PM]

RedSpah: can I ask an off-topic question? [3:44 PM]

Elves: ( vineet! somewhere in space and time... thaaaaank yoouuuuuu ) [3:44 PM]

rhiju: @red we're totally off topic already :) [3:44 PM]

vineetkosaraju: @rhiju the link to vineet2?  [3:45 PM]

rhiju: yes, the link to vineet2 [3:45 PM]

vineetkosaraju: vineet2.eternadev.org [3:45 PM]

vineetkosaraju: www.vineet2.eternadev.org [3:45 PM]

RedSpah: Nando mentioned that solutions for Teslagon are needed because you have a list of 50 super-hard player puzzles to test bots or something like that [3:45 PM]

vineetkosaraju: *correction: http://vineet2.eternadev.org [3:45 PM]

RedSpah: I don't know if that's the case, and if it is, can I has the list [3:45 PM]

rhiju: @red yes [3:45 PM]

Brourd: Was vineet1 not good enough? [3:46 PM]

rhiju: @red yes vineet can post the list. [3:46 PM]

rhiju: actually he was going to do it in the next week. [3:46 PM]

rhiju: we were actually going to give out a badge for folks who can solve all 100.  [3:46 PM]

vineetkosaraju: @red we'll be posting a news item with the list of the 100 puzzles (not all are super hard, but a few are probably very challenging, like teslagon) [3:46 PM]

rhiju: cuz some of them are superhard [3:46 PM]

RedSpah: vineet1 wasn't vineet enough ofc [3:46 PM]

RedSpah: duh [3:46 PM]

RedSpah: another badge for 3 people [3:47 PM]

rhiju: does anyone see what has changed in the vineet2 site? [3:47 PM]

RedSpah: pls add one for solving half of that list so mortals have a chance [3:47 PM]

jmf028: we didn't get badges, red [3:47 PM]

RedSpah: ah [3:47 PM]

RedSpah: I'm dumb [3:47 PM]

jmf028: you said it, not me :D [3:47 PM]

jmf028: :P [3:47 PM]

rhiju: @red good idea to have a badge for doing 50. [3:48 PM]

RedSpah: kek [3:48 PM]

jmf028: nice, thanks red :D [3:48 PM]

RedSpah: you NEED to add a dot puzzle to that list /s [3:48 PM]

jmf028: XD [3:48 PM]

jmf028: a super hard one [3:49 PM]

jnicol: there is a spacebar puzzle in there [3:49 PM]

jmf028: really lol [3:49 PM]

Nando: doing all 100 is like black belt 9-dan puzzle master [3:49 PM]

Jennifer Pearl: im late [3:49 PM]

RedSpah: reminds me a bot of codewars [3:49 PM]

jmf028: hmm, that's sudoku, nando [3:49 PM]

RedSpah: which has defined ranks from 8 kyu to 8 dan [3:49 PM]

Nando: @jmf: lol [3:50 PM]

RedSpah: but only enough puzzles to make it to 1st kyu [3:50 PM]

RedSpah: (I'm 4 kyu for reference) [3:50 PM]

Jennifer Pearl: Hi Sorry im late. Got stuck at work adn having laptop issues till [3:50 PM]

Brourd: Not sure, Rhiju. What typeset did we switch to? [3:50 PM]

jmf028: hi enn [3:50 PM]

jmf028: jenn* [3:50 PM]

jmf028: rhiju was asking about the about page [3:51 PM]

Elves: hi welcome Jennifer! [3:51 PM]

Nando: Helvetica Neue, Open Sans [3:51 PM]

rhiju: @jen thanks a lot for the summary at the end. [3:51 PM]

RedSpah: looks sick [3:51 PM]

Jennifer Pearl: im using a weird mouse that killed my laptop i think  asecond ago so if I drop out that is why [3:52 PM]

Elves: ya Brourd, I only see font change so far as well. and padding difference in puzzle grid. and logo redesign [3:51 PM]

jmf028: no worries jenn [3:52 PM]

Elves: bad mouse! no cookie [3:52 PM]

RedSpah: no cheese [3:52 PM]

jmf028: if you give a mouse a cookie... [3:52 PM]

Elves: hehehe [3:52 PM]

Jennifer Pearl: So about the 'About' page it looks like there is support from the community to update it [3:52 PM]

Jennifer Pearl: lol [3:52 PM]

rhiju: @brourd, elves. exactly on fonts and spacings and logos. something else changed [3:52 PM]

Elves: lol! did you ever read if you give a moose a muffin, sequel i think [3:52 PM]

jmf028: yes i did elves :D [3:53 PM]

jmf028: that's why I said it [3:53 PM]

Elves: but what!!!? :D still flash so my first guess is out the window [3:53 PM]

jmf028: html5? :P [3:53 PM]

jmf028: jk [3:53 PM]

RedSpah: elkes don't expect miracles [3:53 PM]

jmf028: well gotta go [3:53 PM]

jmf028: thanks for the chat [3:53 PM]

Elves: by jmf! glad to see you  [3:53 PM]

rhiju: (answer: button shape) [3:54 PM]

Jennifer Pearl: There was a valid concern that the about page needs to have good info for people to understand who we are and whre we are going and were we have been [3:54 PM]

rhiju: by jmf [3:54 PM]

rhiju: e.g., look at 'participate' button at http://vineet2.eternadev.org/web/labs/ [3:54 PM]

Elves: ah yes. you went candy flat color with corners.  [3:55 PM]

Jennifer Pearl: along with that it was brought up that we already have a player page so we should maybe stay away from "tips" [3:55 PM]

Jennifer Pearl: (maybe guide people to the tips [3:55 PM]

rhiju: the old fonts have been keeping some of us up at night, so we're actually excited about this fine-tuning. (of course much more is around the corner for eterna-medicine.) [3:55 PM]

Elves: i'm a fan of rounded edges, but the new color pops more [3:55 PM]

Brourd: But you still have to click exactly on the word to go anywhere. Nice job, vineet :P [3:56 PM]

rhiju: @jen, how can we guide players to tips [3:55 PM]

Elves: well noticed brourd! yep - can we make the whole button clickable? [3:56 PM]

Jennifer Pearl: have a set of links to where the tips live. Im thinking maybe a comprehensisve tip guide like the comprehensive eterna guide [3:56 PM]

rhiju: @brourd, good point -- @vineet, button clicking at edges fixable? [3:57 PM]

rhiju: @jen, ok to have that on the wiki? [3:57 PM]

rhiju: then it could be updated by players [3:58 PM]

rhiju: living 'tips' page [3:58 PM]

Elves: i'd like to see the about page as a kind of orientation & FAQ, like to answer these questions: what is eterna, where do i start, why am i here, who are you people?!? [3:58 PM]

rhiju: but we could link off the 'for players' page in the 'info' menu [3:58 PM]

Jennifer Pearl: I think that would work. We can do that and then revisit it in a few months or so and see what people think. [3:58 PM]

whbob: Tips help beginners, so how about under Help? [3:58 PM]

Jennifer Pearl: @rhiju I was refering to the wiki idea [3:59 PM]

Elves: when i land on a website and don't know what is happening, i look to the about page like a life preserver in an ocean of data. just tell me the most essential facts about what is happening here, and why i... [3:59 PM]

...should click on another link

rhiju: @elves, whbob -- good points -- if you have a sec, put in these ideas at the forum thread (https://getsatisfaction.com/eternagame/topics/call-for-open-discussion-on-updating-the-eterna-about-page) [3:59 PM]

Jennifer Pearl: There would definitly be stuff to help players and guyide them but it would be mostly links to other stuff [4:00 PM]

Elves: people who already know the site will know to nav to things like wiki. but for first time orientation, about is the beacon of sanity in a million pages that make no sense the first time you are here [4:00 PM]

rhiju: OK everyone, we gotta go! [4:00 PM]

Elves: ok will do! [4:00 PM]

Jennifer Pearl: sorry I was late [4:00 PM]

rhiju: the one thing we haven't discussed yet is getting players to help with coding, including an HTML5 port [4:00 PM]

Elves: thanks very much Rhiju, Nando, jnicol, Vineet, scientists, players, devs, and tiny RNA machines!!! [4:00 PM]

Jennifer Pearl: I like coding but busy with DPAT [4:01 PM]

Brourd: Farewell, Rhiju. Thanks for being here today. [4:01 PM]

rhiju: will punt that to the next session (in 2 fridays). [4:01 PM]

rhiju: see you everyone! [4:01 PM]

Elves: take care! [4:01 PM]

Jennifer Pearl: we can bring it up at player led chat [4:01 PM]

Elves: good idea Jen! [4:01 PM]

Jennifer Pearl: @Elves did you see the graphs i sent you [4:04 PM]

Elves: I did, those are amazing!!  [4:04 PM]

Elves: wow! [4:04 PM]

Jennifer Pearl: I know right [4:04 PM]

Jennifer Pearl: Happy Dance [4:04 PM]

Jennifer Pearl: !!!! [4:04 PM]

Elves: hehehehe [4:04 PM]

Elves: *happy dance* [4:04 PM]

Jennifer Pearl: ;) [4:05 PM]

Jennifer Pearl: Well I gota go back to work..... [4:06 PM]

Jennifer Pearl: I need to put in 4 more hours [4:06 PM]

Elves: hehehe me too. but looking forward to the results [4:06 PM]

Elves: almost there! [4:06 PM]

Jennifer Pearl: I am close to having DPAT working with LFP6's script so we will have some data soon I hope [4:07 PM]

Elves: i am afraid to estimate how many hours i have so i'll just say see you next week :D [4:07 PM]

Jennifer Pearl: soo close [4:07 PM]

Elves: niiiiiiiice [4:07 PM]

Elves: *high five* [4:07 PM]

Elves: ( thanks LFP6 wherever you are! ) [4:07 PM]

Jennifer Pearl: *high five* [4:07 PM]

Elves: :) [4:07 PM]

Jennifer Pearl: He said he shoud have the whole script working this weekendish [4:08 PM]

Jennifer Pearl: or by end of the weekish [4:08 PM]

Elves: wow! awesome. that works for me [4:08 PM]

Jennifer Pearl: cool [4:08 PM]

Jennifer Pearl: I gota go. TTYL [4:08 PM]

Jennifer Pearl: afk [4:08 PM]

Elves: take care! [4:08 PM]