2014.11.05 Dev Chat

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On NOVA Menu Links, Lab Questions


jnicol: Welcome to dev chat everyone! [3:00 PM]

machinelves: thanks! :) [3:00 PM]

Eli Fisker: Thx, John :) [3:00 PM]

jnicol: Has anyone npticed the updated menus? [3:00 PM]

Jieux: Why must I solve all puzzles in what must be the hard way. [3:00 PM]

machinelves: thanks for putting nova link in menu [3:00 PM]

jnicol: *noticed [3:00 PM]

Eli Fisker: Absolutely :) [3:00 PM]

machinelves: awesomesauce :D [3:00 PM]

Eli Fisker: lol, Jieux [3:01 PM]

Eli Fisker: Menu says NOVA tutorials :) [3:01 PM]

jnicol: Jieux, I could upload some solves for you , but I don't think you would want the easy way either :) [3:01 PM]

machinelves: fyi, LFP would like to know status on player dev & issue tracker, pretty please [3:02 PM]

Eli Fisker: haha, John [3:02 PM]

Jieux: I think the community menu should provide a direct link to Eli's Jokes & Quotes guide. [3:02 PM]

Jieux: Yea, I'd kinda like to be able to see other solutions once I've solved a puzzle... [3:02 PM]

machinelves: hehe i think this place partly runs on jokes [3:02 PM]

jnicol: Eli, is it correct, or are you just commenting? [3:02 PM]

machinelves: jieux good idea [3:03 PM]

machinelves: would be really cool way to see diversity of solves [3:03 PM]

Eli Fisker: John, the haha, was for you offering Jieux the easy way out on puzzles, knowing he wouldn't take it [3:03 PM]

jnicol: Elves, LFP6, I got sidetracked from the bug tracker, but will get back to it this weekend [3:03 PM]

machinelves: no worries, i just promised him i would ask [3:04 PM]

jnicol: player dev status is still on hold [3:04 PM]

machinelves: roger that [3:04 PM]

mat747: hi [3:04 PM]

machinelves: hey mat! [3:05 PM]

jnicol: Eli, :) knew that would be what Jieux would say [3:05 PM]

jnicol: Hi Mat [3:05 PM]

Eli Fisker: John, it do says NOVA tutorials in the menu under puzzles. But not when I'm a puzzle  [3:05 PM]

macclark52: Oh, there it is.  That's nice.  [3:06 PM]

zima: Hi all. There are many great tutorials, why are they not in the eterna tutorials menu [3:06 PM]

jnicol: In puzzlemaker? [3:06 PM]

Eli Fisker: Ah, sorry, John, I was in a lab puzzle [3:06 PM]

mat747: hi machine - mail [3:06 PM]

jnicol: zima, they are player puzzle tutorials [3:06 PM]

machinelves: thanks mat checking [3:06 PM]

Eli Fisker: When I'm in lab puzzles it doesn't say Nova tutorials  [3:06 PM]

mat747: hi zima, eli, john [3:06 PM]

jnicol: so they are under player puzzles [3:07 PM]

jnicol: guess we could put a separate link to the list of player tutorials as well [3:07 PM]

Eli Fisker: They are also not shown when I'm in a puzzle [3:08 PM]

machinelves: yes i saw different lab menu items from labs too [3:08 PM]

Eli Fisker: But as long as I'm outside of lab or puzzle, the NOVA tutorial link is there in the menu under puzzle [3:08 PM]

Eli Fisker: Yes, the lab names changes. Called paper labs somewhere and active labs elsewhere [3:08 PM]

Eli Fisker: But I'm very happy we got the NOVA tutorial link [3:09 PM]

zima: putting player tutorials on the menu would be great cause new users don't know they exist [3:09 PM]

jnicol: Ah, puzzles uses a separate menu, I'll update that, thanks Eli [3:09 PM]

Eli Fisker: Also I noticed another fine detail [3:09 PM]

Eli Fisker: Np, John [3:09 PM]

Eli Fisker: You swapped the buttons around on the game front page.  [3:09 PM]

Eli Fisker: Thumbs up! [3:09 PM]

machinelves: http://prntscr.com/53fvb4 [3:09 PM]

Eli Fisker: So nova is on top [3:09 PM]

jnicol: Yes :) [3:09 PM]

Eli Fisker: Its a help.  [3:10 PM]

Eli Fisker: I still think text might need to change [3:10 PM]

jnicol: more chance of players noticing Nova now [3:10 PM]

Eli Fisker: Exactly [3:10 PM]

Nando: hi guys [3:10 PM]

machinelves: http://prntscr.com/53fvma [3:10 PM]

Eli Fisker: Hi Nando :) [3:10 PM]

mat747: hi nando [3:10 PM]

jnicol: It was an image, otherwise I would have changed the text also [3:10 PM]

jnicol: Hi Nando [3:10 PM]

Eli Fisker: Ah [3:10 PM]

machinelves: hey nando! :) [3:10 PM]

Jieux: Hey nando. [3:10 PM]

Eli Fisker: Ok, so saving that wish for later.  [3:11 PM]

Eli Fisker: Will see how many new who still misses the tutorials [3:11 PM]

Jieux: hey, can I still get the 5k points for doing those tutorials? [3:11 PM]

machinelves: john thanks very much for making these edits [3:11 PM]

jnicol: Jieux, sorry, the offer for 5000 points has expired [3:12 PM]

machinelves: jnicol if you have source image files, I can make edits for you [3:12 PM]

jnicol: just kidding :) [3:12 PM]

Eli Fisker: Hey, roadmap folded under Me :) [3:12 PM]

machinelves: layered [3:12 PM]

Eli Fisker: Think thats a good move also [3:12 PM]

Jieux: heh [3:12 PM]

jnicol: elves, the code of conduct page is under Help as well [3:12 PM]

Jieux: i should get them before they do expire. [3:12 PM]

machinelves: omg! sweet! [3:12 PM]

jnicol: question about the email address [3:13 PM]

machinelves: thank you so much, CoC very very good to have clearly posted [3:13 PM]

machinelves: yes [3:13 PM]

jnicol: who monitors that address? [3:13 PM]

machinelves: i was wondering same [3:13 PM]

jnicol: lol, I'll check [3:13 PM]

machinelves: recommend to reove unless you have active bandwidth to answer posts [3:13 PM]

machinelves: *remove [3:13 PM]

machinelves: at minimum it simply helps to have clearly posted rules [3:13 PM]

jnicol: I dont think it can be accessed if you are not logged in [3:13 PM]

jnicol: maybe move it to the wiki as well [3:14 PM]

machinelves: since anonymous can't talk in chat i think that is okay [3:14 PM]

machinelves: we have a link from wiki home page [3:14 PM]

machinelves: ohhh [3:14 PM]

machinelves: you mean CoC page no access without login? [3:14 PM]

machinelves: let me test [3:14 PM]

jnicol: I didnt see it [3:14 PM]

jnicol: sorry, it links to the same page [3:15 PM]

machinelves: yep access denied [3:15 PM]

machinelves: kk we can copy text into wiki page [3:15 PM]

machinelves: just will need a ping when text in CoC original is updated to keep wiki version current [3:15 PM]

Eli Fisker: Ok, I tried without being logged in and I get access denied [3:16 PM]

machinelves: @mat got mail thanks, that answers my question [3:16 PM]

Eli Fisker: http://prntscr.com/53fxwn [3:16 PM]

machinelves: same here [3:17 PM]

machinelves: jnicol thanks for cleaning up the menu terms, i like roadmap condensed under Me section [3:17 PM]

Nando: @John: a lab-related question: every round, a special sequence (P4P6-2HP) which contains GAGUA pentaloops is added to the batch for normalization purposes. Would it be possible to see the sequence and its associated SHAPE reactivities, at least in the RDAT files deposited on RMDB? I'm specially interested in knowing... [3:18 PM]

...whether that sequence contains a barcode or not.

mat747: eli - http://prntscr.com/53fymz [3:19 PM]

jnicol: Nando, I don't know of the sequence,is this Omei's reproducibility sequences? [3:19 PM]

Eli Fisker: Mat, thx. John discovered it didn't show when we are not logged in [3:20 PM]

machinelves: fyi, my top 2 requests right now are the chat window Help button, and updating the options here... I don't recall what we thought of originally, but if you have bandwidth let me know and I can dig up the previous mockups: http://prntscr.com/53fync [3:20 PM]

Eli Fisker: John, no, its a check that is mentioned in the lab method paper [3:20 PM]

jnicol: Also, the 'white' dot in the middle of the page was removed [3:20 PM]

Nando: no, the Das Lab must be adding it to the batches, otherwise they wouldn't be able to do the GAGUA normalization that they mention in all RDAT files [3:20 PM]

jnicol: Can you send me more information and I will check on it [3:21 PM]

machinelves: also wanted to make general request for labs to always have a minimum of 2 weeks notice, since many players gave feedback that they felt rushed with the surprise rounds last time. they wish to help, and can do a better job and not be rushed if we build in enough time [3:21 PM]

Nando: as Eli mentioned, it's somewhere in the methods published by Das Lab, I'll try to find the document and I'll PM you [3:22 PM]

Eli Fisker: John, I would love if you make a post notice on it when you find out.  [3:22 PM]

Eli Fisker: So everybody knows [3:22 PM]

jnicol: Every round has been 4 weeks notice, but some labs have been inserted because of time constraints by the authors [3:22 PM]

machinelves: yes that's what i'm talking about [3:23 PM]

machinelves: 4 weeks in general, and if less time then maybe wait until next round? [3:23 PM]

jnicol: for instance, vineet and tomoe needed some results very quickly for their science entry [3:23 PM]

Eli Fisker: But generally it will be best if we don't get a ton of labs with very short notice.  [3:24 PM]

jnicol: Trying to stay with the 4 weeks between rounds [3:24 PM]

machinelves: ah, i see. some explanation like that may help to explain why players should rearrange their schedule to help [3:24 PM]

machinelves: because it takes many hours to do that work [3:24 PM]

jnicol: Yes, last time I mentioned to Rhiju that we should extend the deadline, but when you added your voice, it got noticed :) [3:25 PM]

machinelves: thanks for your support :) [3:25 PM]

Eli Fisker: Thx for mentioning John [3:25 PM]

Eli Fisker: Apprechiated [3:25 PM]

Eli Fisker: We want to make good designs [3:26 PM]

machinelves: i want to recognize the hard work and donation of time of players who make the effort to do labs, since I rarely have time myself [3:26 PM]

machinelves: ( thanks everybody! :D ) [3:27 PM]

jnicol: yes, its a balancing act, researchers want the results asap and designers would some time to investigate good submittals :) [3:27 PM]

machinelves: yes, many players have families, jobs, and other things to attend to, and need to know we understand they aren't just data producing machines :D [3:27 PM]

machinelves: so thanks for all your help in keeping a balance. :) [3:29 PM]

JR: Brourd added a new lad that took me 5 hours to complete, 2 weeks away but a news item might  bring it to everyone's attention and a color highlight for new news items might also help. [3:29 PM]

Eli Fisker: Yup [3:29 PM]

jnicol: Thanks to the community, everyone here contributes greatly, thanks! [3:29 PM]

Eli Fisker: :) [3:29 PM]

jnicol: Hi JR, you mean Brourds current lab? [3:30 PM]

machinelves: thanks John, the gratitude makes a difference :D we are grateful to you too. you've been making a difference and we appreciate it a lot [3:30 PM]

machinelves: JR makes a good point about getting clear notice - part of the issue in short notice is if you don't log in every day or miss the notice for the first couple days, then 5 days notice is easily 3 days notice and so on [3:31 PM]

jnicol: because I did add anews item for the previous round [3:31 PM]

machinelves: color highlight is interesting idea, maybe for first 2-4 days of newness [3:31 PM]

machinelves: I often miss news announcements for a couple days unless i'm looking for them [3:32 PM]

machinelves: thanks for making the announcement, that does help a lot [3:32 PM]

Nando: @john: I think I found my answer https://github.com/DasLab/map_seeker scroll down to 3. Referencing [3:32 PM]

jnicol: Some players set the email notification [3:32 PM]

machinelves: ohh good tip! [3:33 PM]

jnicol: Thanks Nando, I'll ask about it [3:33 PM]

Eli Fisker: Got one more note on the menu. The old menu on Roadmap is still visible, either when in a puzzle or in a lab design:  [3:33 PM]

Eli Fisker: http://prntscr.com/53fyja [3:34 PM]

TomoeUzumaki: heyy [3:35 PM]

Eli Fisker: hi Tomoe :) [3:35 PM]

jnicol: I'll take care of that Eli [3:35 PM]

machinelves: hey tomoe! :) [3:35 PM]

jnicol: Hi Tomoe! [3:35 PM]

Eli Fisker: Thx, John [3:35 PM]

zima: congrats on yesterday tomoe [3:35 PM]

Eli Fisker: Yep, you did a great job, Tomoe [3:36 PM]

machinelves: yes great presentation :D like a mini das lab meeting [3:36 PM]

Eli Fisker: You have definitely been reading your homework in that Cell book - and then a bit more [3:36 PM]

zima: john, did you agree to put player tutorials on the menu?   [3:36 PM]

TomoeUzumaki: xD thx [3:36 PM]

jnicol: Nando, I dont think that sequence has been added since I have been creating the sequence orders [3:38 PM]

jnicol: Could be wrong about that, but I'll check [3:38 PM]

Nando: that would mean that the latest rounds didn't have normalization, which would be surprising [3:38 PM]

Nando: could be that the lab can add that sequence without it being in the order you're issueing [3:39 PM]

jnicol: Unless they add it after from a supply they keep at the lab? [3:39 PM]

Nando: exactly my thought [3:39 PM]

jnicol: lol, same thought [3:39 PM]

Nando: according to the document, that sequence is not barcoded, so I wonder how they identify its signal in the results... [3:40 PM]

jnicol: Any more questions or ideas before I leave? [3:41 PM]

Eli Fisker: I have one from Chris/eternacac [3:41 PM]

jnicol: sure [3:41 PM]

Eli Fisker: He wished for lab score being showed in the lab messages, not just as points but as folding % [3:42 PM]

Eli Fisker: http://prntscr.com/53g5b3 [3:42 PM]

machinelves: just a ping reminder on the wish for help button in the chat window, no rush [3:42 PM]

Eli Fisker: I think it will be help to the new also [3:42 PM]

Eli Fisker: as not all go and check in the lab itself [3:42 PM]

machinelves: that's a cool idea [3:42 PM]

Eli Fisker: But they check their messages and see a number they don't know how to relate to [3:42 PM]

Eli Fisker: unless they check a lab guide [3:42 PM]

machinelves: thanks for all your efforts John! :) [3:42 PM]

jnicol: good idea Eli, Chris [3:42 PM]

Eli Fisker: Np. Also the design link land in the lab and not the design itself [3:42 PM]

Eli Fisker: Not sure what will be best though [3:43 PM]

Eli Fisker: I think a direct link will secure more new study their own designs, but they might miss the others then [3:43 PM]

Eli Fisker: And thats it from here [3:43 PM]

jnicol: thanks evryone [3:44 PM]

Eli Fisker: Bye John [3:44 PM]

machinelves: thank you! :D have a good week  [3:44 PM]

jnicol:  thanks for the dev chat! [3:44 PM]

zima: thanks, John.  bye [3:44 PM]

mat747: bye john [3:44 PM]

jnicol: lets all wish Tomoe and Vineet good luck with their presentation!!! [3:44 PM]

machinelves: good luck Tomoe & Vineet! You will do awesome! :D [3:45 PM]

Eli Fisker: Cheers, Tomoe and Vineet [3:45 PM]

zima: Absolutely!! [3:45 PM]

machinelves: { because you already did awesome, so we know. :) } [3:45 PM]

Eli Fisker: :) [3:45 PM]