2014.10.08 Dev Chat

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On Lab Conclusions & Help Button

jnicol: Hi everyone, welcome to dev chat [3:00 PM]

machinelves: hello! :D [3:00 PM]

jnicol: hey elves :) [3:00 PM]

macclark52: Hi, John.  [3:00 PM]

machinelves: hey :) good to see you, thanks for the chat [3:00 PM]

jnicol: hi macclark [3:00 PM]

macclark52: Hi, elves. [3:00 PM]

machinelves: hi mac! [3:00 PM]

machinelves: how goes the grand dev adventure? [3:01 PM]

jnicol: I am in the process of putting up adding conclusions for the labs [3:01 PM]

Jieux: A developer chat! [3:01 PM]

jnicol: I'll finish that after this chat session [3:01 PM]

jnicol: Hi Jieux, welcome! [3:01 PM]

machinelves: nice! [3:01 PM]

machinelves: hey jieux! :D [3:02 PM]

macclark52: Adding conclusions?  from the synthesis data? [3:02 PM]

jnicol: Also will get the nova links up [3:02 PM]

Jieux: Gosh thanks! I've not been to many of these things. Probably can't stay long... [3:02 PM]

jnicol: The admin of a completed lab can add a conclusion fo rthat lab [3:02 PM]

jandersonlee: any progress on the S/N problem with results? [3:02 PM]

machinelves: woohoo! nova links for "looking for something to do?" panel? [3:02 PM]

jnicol: synopsis of what was found out/accomplished [3:03 PM]

Eli Fisker: Sweet on getting Nova links up :) [3:03 PM]

jnicol: and the admin gains 2000 points! for each lab conclusion [3:03 PM]

machinelves: wow! [3:03 PM]

macclark52: Woo hoo! [3:03 PM]

jnicol: good incentive to run a paper lab? [3:03 PM]

Jieux: so I write a lab conclusion and they get the loot? [3:04 PM]

machinelves: hehe indeed [3:04 PM]

macclark52: I would think so.  [3:04 PM]

jandersonlee: need some incentives s- running a lab seems like hard work [3:03 PM]

jnicol: only the admin can write it [3:04 PM]

Jieux: ah ok. [3:04 PM]

jnicol: I'll post a news item when it is up [3:04 PM]

Jieux: what about player design conclusions? [3:05 PM]

jnicol: we can certaintly use more labs :) [3:05 PM]

jnicol: @Jieux, any completed lab can have a conclusion added [3:05 PM]

jandersonlee: are pilot projects being run? never hear of results on those [3:05 PM]

Eli Fisker: Actually it is hard to see which pilot projects are active [3:06 PM]

jandersonlee: could help get people into running a lab [3:06 PM]

jnicol: @JL, most of them that were valid have been run [3:06 PM]

Eli Fisker: as they are not sorted after number of votes [3:06 PM]

jandersonlee: some way to view results and sort proposals would be nice [3:06 PM]

jnicol: agreed [3:06 PM]

machinelves: is the in-chat Help button scheduled? there have been more kids here now that school has started, so after the NOVA links, that would be really helpful. [3:06 PM]

Jieux: I mean can I add a conclusion just to my design in a lab...like, "I scored 42% on this lab due to confusing adenine with cytosine? [3:07 PM]

macclark52: So anything that has synthesis data can have a conclusion? [3:07 PM]

Eli Fisker: Also it would be great if the actual pilot project site mentions the new length limitations.  [3:07 PM]

jnicol: I have not heard about the in-chat help button [3:07 PM]

Eli Fisker: So new lab proposers know what to expect [3:07 PM]

jandersonlee: @Eli agreed [3:07 PM]

machinelves: also if we're going to increase volume of lab participation, i know there are a few key interface issues to sort out, so if anyone knows of high priority issues in the lab workflow, let's think about how to resolve those  [3:08 PM]

jnicol: @Jieux, Rhiju said he would harass anyone that does not have a good conclusion :) he is looking for the admins to write papers [3:08 PM]

macclark52: who are "the admins" then? [3:08 PM]

jandersonlee: +500 points for a pilot lab conclusion? [3:08 PM]

machinelves: hehe lab conclusions will be subject to validation & reproducibility I assume, to counterbalance the point incentive [3:08 PM]

Eli Fisker: @John, on the help button that Machinelves mentioned:  [3:09 PM]

Eli Fisker: http://prntscr.com/4ucdqn [3:09 PM]

Jieux: the admin is the labcoat(s) or labrat(s) that design(s) a lab and any cronies that they care to let tag along I think. [3:09 PM]

machinelves: @mac admin in this context means the author of the lab [3:09 PM]

machinelves: perfect, thank you for the mockup link Eli [3:09 PM]

jnicol: @mac, an admin is a player that has created a lab [3:09 PM]

machinelves: that help button would really make it easier for players to focus on higher-order issues & game play, since generic help questions are now outlined in the wiki [3:10 PM]

macclark52: Thanks, that is good info.  One of my honors students designed a lab last year.  Maybe I can convince him to put his conclusions online.  [3:10 PM]

jandersonlee: Might be nice to add hypothesis and experimental design sections too so people understand the intent [3:10 PM]

Eli Fisker: @Elf, np [3:10 PM]

machinelves: nice! all help is welcome :) [3:10 PM]

jnicol: Do you have any content for help button, thx Eli [3:11 PM]

Eli Fisker: John, yes, will send [3:11 PM]

machinelves: yes, http://eternawiki.org/wiki/index.php5/HELP [3:11 PM]

machinelves: or whatever you all prefer [3:11 PM]

Eli Fisker: Thats what it should link up with [3:11 PM]

Eli Fisker: And will send you some background [3:11 PM]

jnicol: so I can send the user to that page when they click the Help button [3:12 PM]

Eli Fisker: Machinelves created the content to help new and confused players [3:12 PM]

macclark52: Like a FAQ [3:12 PM]

machinelves: @jnicol yes exactly [3:12 PM]

Eli Fisker: This will secure they find good help sources real fast, should they need it [3:12 PM]

machinelves: click help button in chat window -> wiki Help page [3:12 PM]

machinelves: and in case we are afk [3:12 PM]

Eli Fisker: Yes, exactly.  [3:13 PM]

machinelves: also, perhaps button for flagging / consensus spam reporting?  [3:13 PM]

jnicol: very nice [3:13 PM]

machinelves: more involved, something to consider [3:13 PM]

jnicol: I've spent some time with spam lately :) [3:13 PM]

machinelves: hehe thank you for all your help [3:13 PM]

machinelves: also thanks to Eli btw for helping compose the wiki help content, could not have done it without his kind assistance [3:14 PM]

Eli Fisker: Hehe, I can imagine, John. Thx for doing it [3:14 PM]

jandersonlee: Perhaps there could be some way for a dev to convert a lab conslustion to a lab/blog post when the lab seems to be finished? [3:16 PM]

machinelves: janderson that is a cool idea! i get out of touch with labs easily after they close, a followup post would be awesome [3:17 PM]

jandersonlee: with a link to the lab page? [3:17 PM]

machinelves: perfect! [3:18 PM]

machinelves: yes, seconded [3:18 PM]

jnicol: Cody Geary is one of the world’s leading RNA nanotechnologist (I believe from Denmark) that Rhiju met in Tokyo a month ago [3:18 PM]

machinelves: that is super cool! [3:18 PM]

jnicol: He is working on some 3D puzzles using the motif approach from jyesselman and Vineet [3:18 PM]

jnicol: we should have some labs from him in the futurer [3:19 PM]

machinelves: sweet! that is great news! *happy dance* [3:19 PM]

Eli Fisker: Cool  [3:20 PM]

jnicol: I added 3D images to the descriptions of his puzzles, if anyone wants to check them out [3:20 PM]

Eli Fisker: http://eterna.cmu.edu/web/playerpuzzles/?search=cody&sort=date [3:21 PM]

jnicol: Jieux, still here? [3:21 PM]

Eli Fisker: Link to them [3:21 PM]

machinelves: cool, i haven't seen that, thanks for the tip [3:21 PM]

machinelves: thanks Eli! [3:21 PM]

Eli Fisker: np [3:21 PM]

macclark52: Thanks, Eli [3:22 PM]

hoglahoo: thanks Eli :) [3:22 PM]

machinelves: is 3D platform still under development, or are issues closed now? [3:22 PM]

jnicol: Its closed for now, until we get a direction on how to continue [3:23 PM]

jandersonlee: @jnicol - looks like those puzzles could be worth a news post for interest's sake [3:23 PM]

Eli Fisker: Great idea, JL [3:23 PM]

machinelves: kk thanks. so open git tickets are on pause, not fully closed [3:23 PM]

jnicol: yes, great idea JL [3:23 PM]

Eli Fisker: The 2D shape looks quite different to the 3D one:  [3:24 PM]

Eli Fisker: http://prntscr.com/4uciti [3:24 PM]

macclark52: Yes, very.   [3:24 PM]

jnicol: jyesselman is still working on the 3d, but not that actively [3:24 PM]

Eli Fisker: http://prntscr.com/4ucizr [3:24 PM]

machinelves: kk thanks - is jyesselman updating git for that work or working outside of it? https://github.com/vineetsk1/EteRNA-3D-Public/issues [3:24 PM]

jnicol: elves, not sure [3:25 PM]

macclark52: Do you think the eterna coding will be able to accommodate things like pseudoknots any time soon? [3:25 PM]

machinelves: kk np, just wanted to make sure he has access to existing bug base [3:25 PM]

jnicol: @mac, not for awhile [3:25 PM]

jnicol: he does elves [3:26 PM]

macclark52: I can't even imagine how the coding works, so I don't know how hard that would be to work out.  [3:26 PM]

machinelves: @Eli thanks for the screenshot comparison of 2D & 3D - this makes me wish for ability to see both at same time in whatever interface we end up with, to wrap heads around how the two ways of viewing the structure relate and are different [3:26 PM]

jnicol: with 3D it can be visualized easier, so thats the first step [3:26 PM]

machinelves: because indeed, it is hard to see how they are similar, but switching between them I can slowly start to see [3:27 PM]

machinelves: @jnicol awesome!  [3:27 PM]

machinelves: @jnicol, i've been seeing more reports of overheating CPUs btw, using flash puzzles in 2D [3:29 PM]

machinelves: and my own machine gets up to 95C, just before emergency shutdown temp, from even tiny little puzzles [3:29 PM]

jnicol: from hog and brourd?? they click awfully fast :) [3:29 PM]

hoglahoo: I have a special heat-resistant keyboard [3:30 PM]

jnicol: time to upgrade? [3:30 PM]

Eli Fisker: :) [3:30 PM]

machinelves: well, i have a haswell chip with 16GB ram... [3:30 PM]

macclark52: The EteRNA Ice pack? [3:30 PM]

Eli Fisker: Good one, Mac [3:30 PM]

hoglahoo: yeah, it's super-cool :) [3:31 PM]

machinelves: if that can't run a flash program... and i have seen others mention this recently [3:31 PM]

jnicol: Ice water challenge RNA style [3:31 PM]

Eli Fisker: Machinelves machine is new [3:31 PM]

machinelves: yes actually i have my machine on an aluminum baking pan to pull off heat and so i don't catch on fire [3:31 PM]

jrambeau: hey [3:31 PM]

jnicol: lol [3:31 PM]

machinelves: i just got a 32GB ram + 3.+ GHz chip I'll benchmark eterna on, to compare [3:31 PM]

Eli Fisker: hi jrambeau [3:31 PM]

machinelves: but fyi, flash has been cooking people's machines, so it may be something to check out [3:32 PM]

Eli Fisker: I recall Nando saying that Eterna fried one of his machines [3:32 PM]

machinelves: since most people probably have less powerful machines than i do, and we want to keep them from melting [3:32 PM]

jnicol: thx elves [3:32 PM]

machinelves: np [3:32 PM]

machinelves: i'll send you screenshots, hardware specs, & benchmarks [3:32 PM]

Eli Fisker: Which reminds me that there is a bug with the bubbles and the low performance mod setting [3:33 PM]

macclark52: What kind of bug, Eli? [3:33 PM]

Eli Fisker: Bubbles switch on automatically after moving to a new puzzle, even if set to low performance mod [3:33 PM]

hoglahoo: I played eterna for 2 years on a 6 year old cheapo laptop from walmart. eterna always pegged its processor and it would heat up to 65C sometimes. if your new lappie is running 95C, you need to have it looked at. are you sure it isn't 95F [3:34 PM]

macclark52: Oh, that's a nuisance. So you have to keep turning it off.  [3:34 PM]

jrambeau: this is to easy [3:34 PM]

jnicol: oh, I havent noticed that, I keep the low performance setting aslso [3:34 PM]

Eli Fisker: I usually keep it running, since it is not bothering my machine [3:34 PM]

machinelves: also, related but separate from what Eli mentioned, i did try to turn off bubbles / use low performance mode - the bubbles went off but the temp went up just as much, so low performance may not be sufficient to prevent overheating fyi [3:34 PM]

machinelves: @hogla thanks for the comparison - yes i am sure it is C not F [3:35 PM]

machinelves: it was fine until running eterna, it goes from 60C to 95C in less than a minute [3:36 PM]

Eli Fisker: I can specify, that the low performance + bubbles, happens in lab:  [3:36 PM]

Eli Fisker: http://prntscr.com/4ucmx2 [3:36 PM]

hoglahoo: it shouldnt even be 60C, imo, though I dont know a lot about macs [3:36 PM]

Eli Fisker: Low performance is turned on, but bubbles still there [3:36 PM]

jnicol: fry eggs and flip rna at the same time :) [3:36 PM]

machinelves: retina screen is a complicating factor, pushing out to a high res [3:36 PM]

machinelves: lol mmm tasty solution [3:37 PM]

hoglahoo: boil water for coffee [3:37 PM]

jnicol: Thanks for the chat everyone, I'll still be online if you have any other questions for me, later [3:37 PM]

hoglahoo: bye john [3:37 PM]

Eli Fisker: So low preformance mode is broken for lab, not puzzles [3:37 PM]

machinelves: hehe perfect. 'no apple geniuses, i have no idea how eggs and coffee got in my keyboard' [3:37 PM]

Eli Fisker: Bye John [3:37 PM]

machinelves: by john! [3:37 PM]

machinelves: thanks for the chat [3:38 PM]

macclark52: Bye, and thanks.  [3:38 PM]