2014.06.04 Dev Chat

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On Code of Conduct

jnicol: Hi everyone, Welcome to dev chat! [3:00 PM]

Eli Fisker: hi John :) [3:00 PM]

Nando: hi John [3:00 PM]

Eli Fisker: thx [3:00 PM]

machinelves: Hello jnicol! Wow! you are off to an amazing start! Thank you so much for all your efforts! :D [3:00 PM]

hoglahoo: *confetti falls from ceiling* [3:00 PM]

luigiusai: Hi Every1 [3:00 PM]

Eli Fisker: hi Luigi [3:00 PM]

luigiusai: ;) [3:00 PM]

jnicol: starting to get pulled in a lot of directions, so hopefully the community can help me out :) [3:01 PM]

jnicol: I hope everyone has read the issue list that I placed in the news. [3:01 PM]

Eli Fisker: We will be happy to help :) [3:01 PM]

machinelves: that list is really helpful, very glad to see it! [3:01 PM]

Meechl: Hello everyone [3:02 PM]

jnicol: I am actually counting on everyone to help out! [3:01 PM]

LFP6: Hey John! Glad to help. :) [3:01 PM]

Eli Fisker: Here for those who didn't saw:  [3:02 PM]

Eli Fisker: http://eterna.cmu.edu/web/news/4668201/ [3:02 PM]

machinelves: we're here to help however we can!  [3:02 PM]

LFP6: Thanks Eli [3:01 PM]

jnicol: thanks all :) [3:02 PM]

Eli Fisker: hi Meechl [3:02 PM]

LFP6: @Machine: Yep! [3:02 PM]

JR: Hi - why are no pilot projects being synthesized [3:02 PM]

LFP6: Thats what we *weren't* hired to do! :P [3:02 PM]

jnicol: we had a 1000 slot limit [3:02 PM]

machinelves: i'm really happy to see Code of Conduct on the list, I sent you a PM, but it is not urgent, and I'll help however I can with that [3:03 PM]

TomoeUzumaki: JR, I think pilot rounds have been synthed....? [3:02 PM]

jnicol: so anything that the paper projects do not used, are used by the highest voted pilot projects [3:03 PM]

jnicol: this time there were no extra slots [3:03 PM]

jnicol: I actually want the code of comduct before I start removing spam, it should also be agreed to for new registrations [3:04 PM]

Meechl: I have a question about the R85 results on RMDB. It looked like all the sequences were run two times, with different barcodes. Is this correct? [3:05 PM]

Eli Fisker: Good call, John [3:04 PM]

jnicol: Meechl, I know there was a problem, and thought it was going to be rerun, but I dont know if it actually was rerun [3:05 PM]

TomoeUzumaki: John, code of conduct sounds like a plan [3:05 PM]

Meechl: Okay, it looks like there is two sets of data for every design, but the sequences aren't exactly the same.  [3:06 PM]

jnicol: yes, related to removing profiles, groups, forum posts [3:06 PM]

jnicol: posts that are not appropiate [3:06 PM]

LFP6: @John: You could have everyone agree to it, a la Foldit's new Terms of Use [3:06 PM]

TomoeUzumaki: makes complete sense, I think [3:06 PM]

jnicol: Meechl, I will check [3:06 PM]

Meechl: thanks! [3:07 PM]

jnicol: thx, LFP6, I'll check theirs out [3:07 PM]

LFP6: Also comments. So many irrevelent comments in news just to get the badge. [3:07 PM]

Eli Fisker: Like LFP says, everyone who signs up for Foldit, also old time users have to accept code of conduct [3:07 PM]

LFP6: When they added it, even existing members had to agree to it, and when they made changes, you had to as well [3:07 PM]

LFP6: @Eli: Yep, code of conduct was rolled into the ToU. [3:07 PM]

Eli Fisker: I second LFP. There are a lot of spam comments, just with intention of getting badges [3:08 PM]

jnicol: question, how are old time users required? Is it when a new version comes out, during login? [3:08 PM]

LFP6: I don't think we have one here.... Perhaps we should? [3:08 PM]

machinelves: oh i see like a prompt on issue of the change, to all users, that is a good idea, for updates especially [3:08 PM]

Eli Fisker: leaving it harder to see the comments which are serious [3:08 PM]

Eli Fisker: and needs answer [3:08 PM]

LFP6: @John: Yes [3:08 PM]

jnicol: ok, taking notes :) [3:08 PM]

machinelves: yes i keep getting spammed by badge comments [3:08 PM]

LFP6: @Eli: Most definitely. Plus, just obnoxiously annoying. They are there fr a reason, and it is not spam! [3:08 PM]

Eli Fisker: Yes, as the post that one follows, one gets the spam comments too [3:09 PM]

jnicol: badge comments might be hard to stop [3:09 PM]

Eli Fisker: Yes, because the badge give incentive to make them [3:09 PM]

jnicol: but its only 5 still, correct? [3:10 PM]

Eli Fisker: If there was no badge for this, I suspect this will stop [3:10 PM]

Eli Fisker: True [3:10 PM]

LFP6: Sadly, I may have to say gget rid of the badge, or set aup soe sort of filter [3:09 PM]

jnicol: maybe reduce it to 1? [3:10 PM]

Eli Fisker: John, much better [3:10 PM]

machinelves: that's a great idea! [3:10 PM]

machinelves: how could anyone complain about that, lol [3:10 PM]

Eli Fisker: Then it is still there, and it can't be abused as much :) [3:10 PM]

LFP6: yeah, it would at least introduce them to it, and at the very last any obvious spam can just be removed [3:10 PM]

jnicol: all in favor :) [3:11 PM]

hoglahoo: Or restrict comments to people who are actually playing the game (certain number of points). kills some spam too [3:11 PM]

LFP6: And that should be something mentioned in the CoC.... "No spam, on pun ishment of ban for repeat offenders!" [3:11 PM]

LFP6: True Hog [3:11 PM]

hoglahoo: 'real' spam, not just silly comments [3:11 PM]

LFP6: Also works [3:11 PM]

jnicol: hog, I thought about that also, its very probable [3:12 PM]

LFP6: Well, we see a lot of silly comments 'round here *looks at no one in particular, and everyone* [3:11 PM]

hoglahoo: :) [3:12 PM]

Eli Fisker: :) [3:12 PM]

luigiusai: :D [3:12 PM]

LFP6: Oh, and John, had a couple thoughts. I think it would be extremely beneficial to have 'community functions'/competitions/the like. [3:12 PM]

jello: : ) [3:13 PM]

jnicol: I think organizing the ME messages would also help to filter these messages [3:13 PM]

LFP6: I know EyeWire does it [3:12 PM]

LFP6: And I feel like it would really help with sustaining interest and the like [3:13 PM]

TomoeUzumaki: LFP, that's a really good idea [3:13 PM]

TomoeUzumaki: and EyeWire has really taken off [3:13 PM]

LFP6: Also, I think integrating the stats that you put together into the main site would be cool (or something similar). More leaderboards are alwas good! [3:13 PM]

LFP6: (IMO) [3:13 PM]

LFP6: @John: ME? [3:14 PM]

jnicol: Me -> My Feed page [3:14 PM]

TomoeUzumaki: ohh [3:14 PM]

machinelves: the PM system is easy to lose real PMs due to spam [3:15 PM]

jnicol: If I go silent for a short time its because I'm taking notes :) [3:15 PM]

Eli Fisker: :) [3:15 PM]

starryjess: people spam you in pm's? [3:15 PM]

machinelves: jnicol you're doing great juggling so many things, we are all really grateful :D [3:15 PM]

jnicol: yes, should just have said PM system [3:15 PM]

hoglahoo: Nobody spams my PMs - it's the feed that is overly noisy. Everything is jumbled together [3:15 PM]

TomoeUzumaki: there should be a way to sort it [3:16 PM]

TomoeUzumaki: like, PMs from certain users [3:16 PM]

jnicol: well, comments for badges on a puzzle show up in the creators PM [3:16 PM]

hoglahoo: there is [3:16 PM]

TomoeUzumaki: and certain groups [3:16 PM]

machinelves: oh i see, yes i was incorrect. PMs and news feed etc... are all together, that is exactly what is happening [3:16 PM]

TomoeUzumaki: but you should be able to select what shows up 1st [3:16 PM]

FenixSRB: For what is $ coins that we have ? [3:17 PM]

Eli Fisker: I often miss group messages as I get a red sign for PM's but the latest message is not on top [3:17 PM]

LFP6: @Tomoe: Yes, and also having it set up more like an inbox would help/would be nice IMO [3:17 PM]

LFP6: .$ [3:17 PM]

LinkBot: A player's total points earned from solving puzzles and/or participating in the lab serve to rank the player among all players, and grant access to lab and puzzlemaker at 10,000 and 20,000 points respectively. [3:17 PM]

TomoeUzumaki: Fenix, unlocking labs and puzzle creation [3:17 PM]

jnicol: Like I said earlier, I just want to ge ta system together to see the issues in an easier manner [3:17 PM]

TomoeUzumaki: yeah [3:17 PM]

machinelves: actually some spam is PM now that i look http://prntscr.com/3pq94s [3:18 PM]

jnicol: I would like to categorizd them like I put in the dev news item [3:18 PM]

TomoeUzumaki: yeah [3:18 PM]

jnicol: and use the community to to vote on priorities [3:18 PM]

jnicol: then it would be easier to see bugs that need immedite attention vs niceties that can wait [3:19 PM]

machinelves: community priority vote is genius! :D you will need clear priorities because i am sure there will be too much to do [3:19 PM]

Eli Fisker: John, good idea [3:20 PM]

jnicol: I will average the prioriorites, calculated when the page is refreshed [3:20 PM]

jnicol: average among all the voters of that issue [3:20 PM]

LFP6: @John: I think Machine and I were thinking that that would be good for our new issue tracker. However, that will take time [3:21 PM]

jnicol: and using hogs idea, have some point or rank system to be able to do certain functions [3:21 PM]

TomoeUzumaki: like banning and stuff [3:21 PM]

LFP6: Though, it would anyways, and it won't serve a longer purpose (non-issue tracker) [3:21 PM]

TomoeUzumaki: because the fact that there are only a few people allowed to ban isn't really ok with me [3:21 PM]

machinelves: yes LFP6 makes a good point, priority voting could also take place in an issue tracker, depending on the timeline for that. [3:22 PM]

LFP6: @Tomoe: Yeah, as we don't have great coverage as far as I know [3:22 PM]

jnicol: Tomoe, are you saying anning in chat? [3:22 PM]

jnicol: *banning [3:22 PM]

LFP6: @Machine: And we could continue doing priority into the future [3:22 PM]

jello: my "create an RNA" isnt working but i have over 37,000 cash [3:23 PM]

jnicol: I really am grateful for everyone that has kept the issue tracks organized and up to date [3:23 PM]

machinelves: hoglahoo had some good points about the delicacies of banning. i'm not sure that power should be granted by points, only because it would only be a matter of time before a spammer could gain access to it [3:24 PM]

TomoeUzumaki: john, yes [3:24 PM]

Eli Fisker: Jello, can't you get into lab? Where are you stuck? [3:24 PM]

JR: jello - i see 1807 points -  [3:24 PM]

jello: oh ok [3:24 PM]

jnicol: Hi jello, currently we are having a dev chat, you can ask rna puzzle questions in about 15 minutes when we are finished [3:24 PM]

jnicol: thanks [3:25 PM]

machinelves: but Tomoe, I agree for many things it would be good to have an even playing field, and unlock features meritocratically [3:25 PM]

TomoeUzumaki: or have a way to earn banning potential [3:25 PM]

jello: wait that number is my rank [3:25 PM]

TomoeUzumaki: machine: yep =D [3:25 PM]

jnicol: one of the issues on the list is banning and chat operator procedures, hog, nando, and eli are helping on that front [3:26 PM]

JR: jello yep - you shouls have access to lab [3:26 PM]

jello: to lab or create a puzzle? [3:26 PM]

Nando: imo, chat moderation is not a right, to earn or not, it's a responsibility [3:26 PM]

jello: i can go to lab [3:26 PM]

jnicol: It would be great to start  forum post with any ideas to help with chat issues [3:26 PM]

TomoeUzumaki: john, that's actually a really good idea [3:27 PM]

LFP6: @Tomoe: I would NOT suggest banning based on points. Just because I can powersolve does not mean that I can make good decisions in banning, that I'm mature, will not randomly ban everyone, etc. etc. [3:27 PM]

Eli Fisker: There is one that Machine started earlier [3:27 PM]

TomoeUzumaki: LFP, true [3:27 PM]

TomoeUzumaki: but maybe a way to show that you are mature enough....? [3:27 PM]

TomoeUzumaki: have the community vote on people? [3:27 PM]

LFP6: By being noticed in chat as such [3:27 PM]

machinelves: https://getsatisfaction.com/eternagame/topics/chat_trolls [3:28 PM]

Nando: Vinnie is very mature, and it's top 20... :P [3:28 PM]

TomoeUzumaki: :P [3:28 PM]

Eli Fisker: Thx, Machine [3:28 PM]

jnicol: Does Vinnie ever say anything that is bannable? [3:28 PM]

machinelves: thank you! :D [3:28 PM]

Nando: lol, it does actually :D [3:28 PM]

LFP6: I'd suggest something in between. Community suggestion, devs opinion, current mod's opinion... Generally just a way to know for certain that they will be a good mod [3:28 PM]

TomoeUzumaki: wow vinnie does? [3:29 PM]

starryjess: what did Vinnie do that's bannable? [3:29 PM]

jnicol: Yes, the auto kick is a great idea [3:29 PM]

Nando: well, once I made say "chump" or something like that, the other guy was not exactly offended but he was kinda surprised [3:30 PM]

Nando: silly reference to Bender... anyway [3:30 PM]

TomoeUzumaki: John, we need to make guidelines for the autokick [3:30 PM]

starryjess: huh. doesn't seem bannable though [3:30 PM]

jnicol: maybe even have a threshold to send alerts, but we need to decide what the levels arefor banning or warning [3:30 PM]

machinelves: someone suggested something like a craigslist / reddit style cumulative community downvote on spam avatars, but then someone else pointed out what happens when they swarm and downvote real players? the trick is out-evolving the spammers with whatever tools we use to control the issue [3:30 PM]

jnicol: yes Tomoe, thinking the same thing :) [3:30 PM]

TomoeUzumaki: machine, that is the key, is it not? [3:31 PM]

machinelves: exactly tomoe :D hehe chat chess [3:31 PM]

TomoeUzumaki: john, yes, warning levels [3:31 PM]

TomoeUzumaki: :D [3:31 PM]

jnicol: actually machine, I think we may be able to do something along those lines [3:31 PM]

TomoeUzumaki: oh? [3:32 PM]

LFP6: What about a filter/chat blacklist as well? [3:31 PM]

machinelves: i guess if you gated or weighted votes by multiple fields, points, length of membership etc... it could be balanced a bit [3:32 PM]

jnicol: thats Nando's specialty :) [3:32 PM]

LFP6: Yeah [3:32 PM]

jnicol: blacklisting that is [3:32 PM]

TomoeUzumaki: machine, there's a problem with that tho [3:32 PM]

TomoeUzumaki: trolls can just sit around biding their time [3:32 PM]

jnicol: exaclty machine [3:32 PM]

machinelves: someone, i think hoglahoo said there is a list of autokick / blacklist words already, but don't know if it is hooked up to the mechanism [3:33 PM]

stargatemunky: any ideas what to do now lads? i've reduced it as far as I can see [3:34 PM]

machinelves: @ tomoe yes exactly, come back around full circle on that one lol [3:34 PM]

stargatemunky: http://eterna.cmu.edu/sites/default/files/chat_screens/159247_1401921247.png [3:34 PM]

LFP6: @stargatemunky: We're in a dev chat, please wait until we're finished here, thanks. :) [3:34 PM]

jnicol: Nando or hog, do you know of any list of words that cause auto banishment on our chat? [3:34 PM]

stargatemunky: only ones I haven't bonded are the one sticking out ont he lower right and the loop opposite it [3:34 PM]

TomoeUzumaki: but there has to be a way to outsmart trolls? [3:34 PM]

Nando: hog has implemented that in one of his clients [3:35 PM]

TomoeUzumaki: stargatemonkey, please wait until after the dev chat is over, thank you :D [3:35 PM]

jnicol: for #global ? [3:35 PM]

Nando: I'd say a certain word to demonstrate, but I'd get banned instantly :D [3:35 PM]

jnicol: or it alerts him? [3:35 PM]

starryjess: @Tomoe, don't feed them [3:35 PM]

LFP6: @Tomoe: Would be nice, but it's one of those eternal struggles lol [3:35 PM]

Eli Fisker: Nando :) [3:35 PM]

jnicol: lol :) [3:35 PM]

Eli Fisker: That would be a shame [3:36 PM]

stargatemunky: Does anyone actual care about avatars? just report them as you see them [3:35 PM]

jnicol: ok great, glad you guys have taken the initiative! [3:36 PM]

Eli Fisker: I will like there to be humans to take the final decision, so we do not loose Nando [3:36 PM]

machinelves: i also really respect jieux's opinion that this should be a very free and tolerant place as much as possible, so to only ban for clearly egregious offences ( i think he may be of the opinion not at all, actually ) [3:36 PM]

LFP6: @stargatemunky: We're not just talking about avis, but chat, news comments, forum, etc. [3:36 PM]

jnicol: OK, we devoted a lot of time to issue track and spam trolls, are there any other topics of interest? [3:36 PM]

machinelves: so thinking of alternatives to banning, like autoPMing the user the CoC link, as a gentle reminder, [3:36 PM]

stargatemunky: ditch the 5 comments badge :) [3:37 PM]

machinelves: other methods to correct behavior than banning [3:37 PM]

TomoeUzumaki: elves, that's great [3:37 PM]

LFP6: Then maybe ban if they continue [3:36 PM]

Eli Fisker: I have a minor one, easy fixable [3:37 PM]

TomoeUzumaki: or a"3 strikes you're out" [3:37 PM]

Eli Fisker: The donate link to our side is not active [3:37 PM]

LFP6: Or kick, really [3:37 PM]

Eli Fisker: http://prntscr.com/3pp96b [3:37 PM]

LFP6: Then if they persist, a ban is possible [3:37 PM]

LFP6: @John: Did you see my commentabout community activity earlier? [3:37 PM]

jnicol: I will check into it Eli, thx [3:38 PM]

LFP6: *comments [3:37 PM]

Eli Fisker: np :) [3:38 PM]

machinelves: oh! and i saw someone ask how to donate, just recently, that is a great find Eli [3:38 PM]

jnicol: believe so LFP6 [3:38 PM]

Eli Fisker: thx, Elf [3:38 PM]

LFP6: Cool, thx [3:38 PM]

jnicol: I will reread this chat log anyway to make sure I didnt miss anything [3:38 PM]

Eli Fisker: Great :) [3:39 PM]

machinelves: you're doing great! :D [3:39 PM]

jnicol: lot on my plate, please be patient :) [3:39 PM]

TomoeUzumaki: John, you're doing awesome! [3:39 PM]

Eli Fisker: Will, we know you are busy [3:39 PM]

jnicol: any more questions or comments? [3:40 PM]

machinelves: we appreciate that every task takes time, so we will just take things one at a time [3:40 PM]

LFP6: Yep [3:40 PM]

LFP6: We're all human! [3:40 PM]

LFP6: Except the bots. :] [3:40 PM]

machinelves: i have no further announcements [3:41 PM]

Eli Fisker: lol, LFP [3:41 PM]

machinelves: bleep blorp! [3:41 PM]

jnicol: well, that swhy I plan to update the version history and will probably put the current workload up also, so the community is aware of whats coming [3:41 PM]

Eli Fisker: Sounds great [3:41 PM]

TomoeUzumaki: yep! [3:41 PM]

machinelves: i think that helps a lot, to just have feedback on status. [3:41 PM]

LFP6: All amazing to my ears [3:41 PM]

jnicol: Ok, thanks everyone for your time and input! [3:42 PM]

machinelves: thank *you*! :D [3:42 PM]

LFP6: Thank you! [3:41 PM]

jnicol: time to call an end dev chat :) [3:42 PM]

Eli Fisker: Bye John [3:42 PM]

Nando: bye John [3:42 PM]

machinelves: happy issue spelunking! [3:42 PM]

jnicol: bye all, I'll probably be monitoring for awhile if you think of any additional thoughts [3:43 PM]

machinelves: thanks! bye! [3:43 PM]

luigiusai: Who does test the new beta functions? [3:43 PM]

TomoeUzumaki: see ya, John [3:43 PM]

jnicol: machine, you will post the chat log correct? I will put a link in the news item when you do [3:44 PM]

machinelves: you got it! will PM you when complete [3:44 PM]

jnicol: thx [3:44 PM]

machinelves: np [3:44 PM]

Hyphema: hey.  just to get a thought in on players that have the power to ban.  instead of a point system how about an admin like Nando or Hog to ask a player to be a "watcher" or a player interested in policing the chat to ask Nando or hog for the bannning power  [3:46 PM]

Hyphema: ? [3:46 PM]

TomoeUzumaki: Hyph, that actually sounds pretty good [3:46 PM]