2014.03.26 Dev Chat

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On Paper Labs


jeehyung: Hi all [11:02 PM]
jeehyung: Welcome to bi-weekly Eterna dev chat [11:02 PM]
firedrake969: Hi jee!  :) [11:02 PM]
firedrake969: @Tomoe, yes [11:02 PM]
jeehyung: Hi firedrake : ] [11:03 PM]
Hyphema: hi all. have question from nando. Nando has been asking about the non-functional admin pick on labs [11:03 PM]
firedrake969: @Tomoe, also, it's at 8 EST [11:04 PM]
jeehyung: @Hyphema. Thanks for relaying the question. I thought it was working. I'll look into where it went wrong. [11:05 PM]
Hyphema: i am sure Nando will be thankful  : ) [11:06 PM]
Eli Fisker: hi Jee :) [11:06 PM]
jeehyung: Hi Eli : ] [11:07 PM]
Eli Fisker: Jee, I was wondering about the active labs [11:09 PM]
Hyphema: Any updates with past labs? or the revenge of the G's [11:09 PM]
Hyphema: : ) Eli [11:09 PM]
Eli Fisker: Hyph :) [11:09 PM]
jeehyung: @Eli what is it? [11:09 PM]
Eli Fisker: The sub projects are not counted in among the number of labs displayed [11:10 PM]
Eli Fisker: So there are many more than shown [11:10 PM]
jeehyung: @Hyphema we are waiting for results with no consecutive 4Gs or 4Cs [11:10 PM]
Eli Fisker: Like last round [11:10 PM]
Eli Fisker: Icon said that 3 of the labs alone held 24 labs with the subprojects counted in [11:11 PM]
Hyphema: At least with the FMN mimic lab we are using the same sequence in all 9 of the sub projects so not so bad [11:11 PM]
jeehyung: @Eli we'll switch to new policy where there'll be only 3-5 active projects from next round [11:12 PM]
Eli Fisker: Ok [11:13 PM]
Eli Fisker: Then I have another question. What about the proposed labs that has not been made to that time? [11:13 PM]
jeehyung: @Eli Can you elaborate? I'm not sure if I understand the question [11:14 PM]
Eli Fisker: I mean, it will take real long time before we see them [11:14 PM]
Eli Fisker: I mean I have a series of multiloop testing [11:15 PM]
Eli Fisker: that I didnt got collected under a lab, because I didn't knew how to make sub labs back then [11:15 PM]
Eli Fisker: And there are still many proposed labs by others too [11:16 PM]
jeehyung: I see. In case if you feel many of past projects can be combined, we can combine them on request [11:16 PM]
Eli Fisker: Ok. I just see that it will take a long time for us to get to test the ideas we put up [11:16 PM]
Eli Fisker: with just this few labs [11:17 PM]
jeehyung: The goal of this policy is to let everyone focus on 3-5 projects with a big research theme  [11:17 PM]
Brourd: As I understand it, those 3-5 will be "paper" labs. [11:17 PM]
jeehyung: There are still "pilot project" section, which you can use to just test 20-30 sequences [11:17 PM]
jeehyung: you can use those to test ideas as well [11:17 PM]
Brourd: The pilot labs will contain sequences from the project admin alone? [11:18 PM]
jeehyung: @Brourd yes for now, although we have co-admin feature implemented now and we want to allow other co-admins to add sequences as well [11:18 PM]
Brourd: Will non project admin players be able to submit sequences for the pilot labs as well? [11:19 PM]
Hyphema: would be nice to throw in an sequence to see if the admins would select it. [11:20 PM]
Brourd: and, how many pilot labs can we expect to be ran every round? [11:20 PM]
biggestlegoheroicafanever: Hello everyone [11:19 PM]
Eli Fisker: hi Lego [11:20 PM]
biggestlegoheroicafanever: Hello Jeehyung!  You don't know me but I sent you a message [11:20 PM]
biggestlegoheroicafanever: Hello Eli F. [11:20 PM]
firedrake969: Hi HF [11:20 PM]
biggestlegoheroicafanever: Hello firedrake [11:20 PM]
jeehyung: @Brourd for now it'll be just admin thing, as we want majority of players to focus on paper labs.  [11:21 PM]
Brourd: So Eli, for your own multiloop projects, those would most likely be "pilot labs" [11:21 PM]
jeehyung: As for # of pilot projects, it'll be throttled by number of synthesis slots, not by the # of projects [11:21 PM]
Brourd: Ah, any expectation on that? [11:22 PM]
Eli Fisker: As long as I get to do them I'm happy. But i would still have liked to have other players add their thinking as well [11:22 PM]
jeehyung: @Eli,Brourd. Noted on allowing player pariticipation on pilot projects [11:22 PM]
jeehyung: We are thinking about 3 paper lab projects with 200-300 synthesis slots each [11:22 PM]
Brourd: Well, it will be voluntary, I guess. Probably should just leave it to the admin. [11:23 PM]
Eli Fisker: I also like the idea of people having a shot at getting a slot, which can be a problem in the fewer slots there are [11:23 PM]
jeehyung: and 10-20 pilot projects with 20 slots on average [11:23 PM]
Brourd: very nice. [11:23 PM]
jeehyung: @legofan Hi legofan. Sorry, I think I missed your message.. [11:23 PM]
Brourd: So, will all current proposed projects be canceled? [11:24 PM]
Brourd: or, will they just be transferred to the pilot project list? [11:24 PM]
jeehyung: @Brourd no they'll remain as a proposal to paper labs for now. But we are thinking about resetting the votes [11:25 PM]
Brourd: Well, I believe a number of the current targets may not be paper project material. [11:25 PM]
Brourd: 200-300 slots may not be a useful allocation of resources for some, imo. [11:26 PM]
Eli Fisker: James, it gets easier as you learn [11:27 PM]
Eli Fisker: Welcome to eterna [11:27 PM]
jeehyung: @Brourd that's a good point. Maybe transferring projects with fewer slots retaining the voting would be fair [11:27 PM]
Eli Fisker: @Jee, for several of my labs I would be okay with 40-60 slots [11:28 PM]
Eli Fisker: I will rather not have too many slots on some labs, while too few on others [11:28 PM]
JAMES&POP: Thanks this is not my first time [11:28 PM]
janelle: Jee, that does sound fair [11:28 PM]
Brourd: So, how are we going to enforce the write up of results? [11:29 PM]
JAMES&POP: but it has been a long time  [11:29 PM]
Brourd: Or will we be looking at more of a honor system? [11:29 PM]
jeehyung: @Eli 40-60 slots lab should be transferrable to pilot projects.  [11:30 PM]
Eli Fisker: Great [11:31 PM]
Eli Fisker: I was mainly worried about ending up with too few [11:31 PM]
Eli Fisker: also so people don't have a chance to get a slot [11:31 PM]
Brourd: In addition, while I am sure some players may just vote for a project due to the name proposing the lab, is there going to be a peer review system, to make sure that the published results are actually verifiable and useful? [11:31 PM]
Eli Fisker: Will be harder for the new to learn that way [11:31 PM]
jeehyung: @Brourd we'll add a write-up interface where it'll generate basic paper from outline, summary, etc. But for now it'll be a honor system [11:31 PM]
jeehyung: @Brourd That is the plan as well. We plan to have experts such as Rhiju and invite interested players on reviewing paper labs proposal & results [11:32 PM]
jeehyung: There'll be a news item about this soon [11:32 PM]
Eli Fisker: nice [11:33 PM]
Brourd: Any ETA on when this will be pshed on to the main site? [11:33 PM]
jeehyung: I'll be working on this tomorow night [11:34 PM]
Brourd: Awesome :) and thanks Jee. [11:35 PM]
biggestlegoheroicafanever: Yo, Jeehyung *raises hand* [11:35 PM]
jeehyung: Hi legofan [11:36 PM]
biggestlegoheroicafanever: Hi.  I sent you a message.  I'm willing to translate the "about eteRNA" page into Spanish. [11:36 PM]
Brourd: btw, how goes the search for the next head programmer? [11:38 PM]
jeehyung: @legofan That's very generous offer. We don't have a right tool to support multi-language eterna yet...but we definitely want to contact you when we are ready for multi-language support.  [11:40 PM]
jeehyung: We really appreciate the offer [11:40 PM]
Eli Fisker: Cool, to both Lego and Jee [11:41 PM]
jeehyung: @Brourd We'll be intereviewing few programmers soon.  [11:40 PM]
biggestlegoheroicafanever: Jee, most of the Spanish text can be put up without accent marks. [11:40 PM]
iksaar: hi all ;) [11:42 PM]
firedrake969: hi iksaar [11:42 PM]
Eli Fisker: hi Iksaar [11:42 PM]
iksaar: fine ? [11:42 PM]
Eli Fisker: Yup. It is dev chat [11:42 PM]
iksaar: oh ! ^^ [11:42 PM]
Brourd: Awesome. Well, that concludes my time here today. Thanks Jee, for answering that barrage of questions, and hopefully it has clarified the new lab system for players. -  Brourd out [11:43 PM]
Eli Fisker: Bye Brourd [11:43 PM]
iksaar: let me read few line... hum .. language... trad.. ok [11:43 PM]
jeehyung: @legofan we actually have a lot of text hard-coded within the game. So we need to implement ways to factor out languages and display different languages on demand. Unfortunately we don't have such system yet [11:43 PM]
machinelves: thanks brourd! [11:43 PM]
jeehyung: @Brourd see you Brourd [11:43 PM]
Brourd: Take care everybody :) [11:43 PM]
biggestlegoheroicafanever: Jee, I understand.   [11:43 PM]
biggestlegoheroicafanever: Cya Brourd [11:43 PM]
iksaar: google translation for me when i have a shard in my tongue ^^' [11:44 PM]
iksaar: but i can offer to translate in french... [11:44 PM]
biggestlegoheroicafanever: When you do have multi-language portals for eteRNA you will get different "shifts" of players working on the game 24 hours a day. [11:44 PM]
iksaar: the interface can be different but datas and server are the same no ? [11:45 PM]
jeehyung: @ikasaar that's true and thanks for the offer as well. We'll definitely ask for your help when we have intterface ready to support multi-launguage [11:47 PM]
iksaar: oh ty ! ^^ [11:47 PM]
Nando: hi guys [11:49 PM]
Eli Fisker: hi Nando [11:50 PM]
machinelves: hi nando! [11:50 PM]
janelle: hi nando [11:50 PM]
Nando: @Jee: ETA for the next update? [11:50 PM]
firedrake969: Hi Nando [11:50 PM]
iksaar: i suppose it's not possible to have right clic command due to flash player no ? (so sad) [11:50 PM]
jeehyung: @Nando I'm planning for update tomorrow night, unless omething goes wrong [11:52 PM]
Nando: ok, thanks [11:52 PM]
iksaar:    And an other idea; is it possible to combine the natural shape command with target command (icone change when you select it) ? [11:55 PM]
hoglahoo: a toggle? [11:55 PM]
iksaar: yep like that [11:56 PM]
jeehyung: @iksaar you should be able to toggle between them using space bar [11:56 PM]
iksaar: ah ok i admit i read space bar for natural shape but i not tried it on target mode [11:57 PM]
Eli Fisker: here is a list of .hotkeys [11:58 PM]
LinkBot: http:// goo.gl/Mmnmpf [11:58 PM]
Hyphema: youre up nando!  good morning. [11:58 PM]
machinelves: thanks Eli, that is really helpful [11:58 PM]
Eli Fisker: np, Machine [11:59 PM]
Nando: barely awake :P [11:59 PM]
jeehyung: All I have to leave now. Thanks for discussions and suggestions again. I'll post the chat log in the news item : ] [11:59 PM]
machinelves: i actually didn't know there were hotkeys for pairs! [11:59 PM]
Eli Fisker: @Nando :) [11:59 PM]
machinelves: bye Jee! thanks, very excited to see paper labs :D [11:59 PM]
Hyphema: Thanks Jee. [11:59 PM]
Nando: bye Jee [11:59 PM]
jnicol: thanks jee [11:59 PM]
janelle: thank you Jee [11:59 PM]
Eli Fisker: Bye Jee [11:59 PM]