2017.12.15 Dev Chat

From Eterna Wiki

LFP6: Coming in a few minutes!  [2:54 PM]

MasterStormer: :)  [2:56 PM]

Astromon: hello  [2:59 PM]

whbob: Hi guys  [3:00 PM]

MasterStormer: hi  [3:01 PM]

cynwulf28: hello all  [3:03 PM]

Omei: Hi everyone  [3:04 PM]

Astromon: o/  [3:04 PM]

cynwulf28: almost like a mini Eternacon  [3:04 PM]

Omei: BTW As of today @LFP6 is an official Standford dev, with the keys to the castle. :-)  [3:05 PM]

cynwulf28: <applauds>  [3:05 PM]

rhiju: hi everybody  [3:05 PM]

cynwulf28: Hello  [3:05 PM]

cynwulf28: @rhijuTY BTW for answering my question  [3:05 PM]

LFP6: Trust me Rhiju - I've been just as impatient as you have to finally join in on the fun :)  [3:05 PM]

whbob: @lfp6:Congrats  [3:06 PM]

LFP6: Thanks!  [3:06 PM]

Astromon: Congratulations lfp6!  [3:07 PM]

rhiju: @cynwulf np  [3:08 PM]

MasterStormer: congats @lfp! I missed omei's message until now, so sorry for the lat one :P  [3:08 PM]

Renton_Innes: Have a great night you guys, and a Marry Christmas, aroha to you all.  [3:16 PM]

cynwulf28: Hapy Holidays to all indeed! [3:09 PM]

Astromon: same to ya Renton [3:09 PM]

rhiju: goodnight renton! [3:09 PM]

rhiju: what to talk about today? [3:09 PM]

rhiju: we have some good news regatding the next challenge [3:10 PM]

cynwulf28: OPen TB? [3:10 PM]

LFP6: "The developer team has some great news and more details related to the next openTB challenge. And we are seeking advice from all players on how to advertise on social media, get more players from around the world, and to ensure success in this next [3:10 PM]


MasterStormer: or the next-next? [3:10 PM]

rhiju: no the very next -- we are deploying it now [3:10 PM]

Renton_Innes: Thank you. Oh really, great. I cant wait to hear about it.  [3:17 PM]

rhiju: it might appear during out chat [3:10 PM]

cynwulf28: :-O  [3:10 PM]

Astromon: :D [3:10 PM]

cynwulf28: xD Oh wow [3:10 PM]

rhiju: we are going to ask for more A*B/C^2 sensors for openTB [3:11 PM]

MasterStormer: yay! [3:11 PM]

rhiju: the cool thing is our partnership with the Gates Foundation [3:11 PM]

rhiju: that has formally gone through [3:11 PM]

MasterStormer: @rhiju about advertizement, it might be too late, but the project for awesome started 10 mins ago - do you know of it? [3:11 PM]

rhiju: patients from around the world have donated their RNA to GAtes Foundation studies to test the TB 3-gene signature [3:12 PM]

rhiju: those samples are here at Stanford [3:12 PM]

cynwulf28: <does a little dance> [3:12 PM]

MasterStormer: nice! didn't even know it's something you can do [3:12 PM]

Renton_Innes: You guys totally deserve that !!! congratulations. i know how hard you have worked on this kind of project since i met you. fantastic news [3:20 PM]

rhiju: we are now going to be challenged to diagnose those samples [3:12 PM]

cynwulf28: Very VERY good news [3:12 PM]

rhiju: using molecules designed by all of you [3:13 PM]

rhiju: the best molecules came from 'openTB round 2', which we announced at eternacon2017 [3:13 PM]

Renton_Innes: changing the world starts with you.  [3:20 PM]

rhiju: we're now asking for even more molecules that build on your insights from those rounds [3:13 PM]

cynwulf28: :-D  It will be fascinating to see how the molecules perform in vivo rather than in vitro. We may very well have to atenuate our designs to compensate [3:13 PM]

rhiju: and that ensemble of eterna designs will be used with the new real-world samples. [3:14 PM]

Renton_Innes: bring it on, im still updating my knowledge but will be designing as much as i can to support your drive [3:21 PM]

whbob: making the chat multilingual? [3:14 PM]

rhiju: some of the samples will be 'blinded', i.e. we won't know whether they come from healthy patients or ones who have active TB [3:14 PM]

cynwulf28: @whbob that too :-) [3:14 PM]

rhiju: so its going to be really rigorous test [3:14 PM]

rhiju: right, @whbob, so that's one important thing. [3:15 PM]

rhiju: it looks like we're going to be getting some help to make our entire site into live translation [3:16 PM]

Astromon: GREAT [3:16 PM]

sagaen: Congrats guys. [3:17 PM]

cynwulf28: @rhiju, have Eterna's RNA-designs already been on these types of samples (from living systems) before or were the tests done with just the components of interest in an appropriate buffer [3:17 PM]

rhiju: @cynwulf28 no all of our prior tests were on synthetic RNA mixtures [3:18 PM]

cynwulf28: I thought so....So this really is the Real Deal. Congratulations on this Milestone! [3:18 PM]

rhiju: right! [3:18 PM]

rhiju: congralutaions to all! [3:18 PM]

rhiju: the live translation is hopefully going to occur by May-June 2018 [3:19 PM]

rhiju: we also are negotiating having eterna released on china's top platform for gaming wegame [3:20 PM]

rhiju: also in 2018 [3:20 PM]

worseize: what type of RNA we deal ? Is that type will be always same ?  [3:21 PM]

rhiju: i was hinting at this 2 weeks ago [3:21 PM]

Renton_Innes: PS, please dont send in your own rna/dna for testing haha [3:29 PM]

rhiju: we (players + developers) will want to be ready to welcome these new players -- live translation may be very important in those early days [3:21 PM]

Astromon: okay [3:22 PM]

rhiju: and having folks in the right hemisphere (like @Renton_Innes) will help with that! [3:22 PM]

Renton_Innes: a truley international crowd. I will translate into New Zealand slang.  [3:30 PM]

hoglahoo: ta [3:22 PM]

Renton_Innes: Hi Hoglahoo [3:30 PM]

rhiju: hi hog [3:23 PM]

hoglahoo: hey [3:23 PM]

MasterStormer: hi  [3:23 PM]

worseize: hi )  [3:23 PM]

whbob: hi [3:23 PM]

worseize: When ner round starts ?  [3:23 PM]

cynwulf28: I just realizeed....that will everything that has happened since the original A*B/C^2 puzzles (2015?) that there is more data in the forum,the wiki,  and in comments on player made puzzles than can be processed sensibly. We have the Blessed -Curse of too much data. How could [3:23 PM]

we repackage/organize all of this better for those who are newer to the site?

worseize: ...*new  [3:24 PM]

Ava Rana : http://www.eternagame.org/sites/default/files/chat_screens/248984_1513369442.png [3:24 PM]

rhiju: @cynwulf28 that's a great point. @lfp6 might have something to say... [3:24 PM]

rhiju: i think one thing that could help new players join in might be to have a 'puzzle of the day' [3:24 PM]

rhiju: something that all of us could try to solve, nearly every day. [3:25 PM]

Renton_Innes: If possible can we get a dedicated area for the TB so all the other challenges dont get in the way or confuse anyone.  [3:32 PM]

rhiju: something taking no more than 10 minutes and related to some interesting concept or stratey -- or a lab [3:25 PM]

Renton_Innes: puzzle of the day hahahaha [3:32 PM]

Astromon: @ava  try a G onbase 4 and an A on base 9 [3:25 PM]

rhiju: actually that isn't my idea -- its something that jnicol and others proposed a while back [3:25 PM]

cynwulf28: @Ava Rana, try using a red G on the left side of that open loop and turn that blue U on the right into a yellow A. Should help :-) [3:25 PM]

cynwulf28: lol Astro [3:25 PM]

Renton_Innes: lol you guys are awesome. hahaha [3:33 PM]

rhiju: @Renton yes, the openTB will show up as a 'lab puzzle' for users who have earned the privilege to access it [3:26 PM]

rhiju: and it will be at the very top of your home page in a separate panel [3:26 PM]

Renton_Innes: wonderful. im still catching up on learning the system and application properly.  [3:34 PM]

LFP6: cynwulf/rhiju: That's part of what I was going after in my 2016 Eternacon talk [3:27 PM]

rhiju: @lfp6 remind us of what you were proposing there [3:28 PM]

LFP6: I feel like there could be a lot of thought put into creating a platform that makes sense for us and the kind of work that we do, of course such a thing is looking into the future [3:28 PM]

worseize: I am looking for a lab any lab [3:28 PM]

cynwulf28: One thing I have noticed @everyone is that the labs section of the site scrolls down seemingly forever and that older labs get lost in the pile. Would there be an easy way to create a Lab-Hub from which one could click on a lab title/icon (such as Open TB) and open a link to [3:28 PM]

all the labs specific to that?

LFP6: The idea I was most excited about was an overhauled groups feature - basically turning them into an effective workplace for some particular function/foal (paper, software, script, theory, etc) [3:28 PM]

rhiju: are there aspects of that future platform that might help guide us through the avilable data? [3:29 PM]

rhiju: @lfp6 yes that's a great idea.  [3:29 PM]

Astromon: old labs can be found under resources and lab archive [3:29 PM]

LFP6: Looking into how to organize our existing content is something we've struggled with for quite a while - and honestly I don't have an answer for what the best approach is [3:30 PM]

hoglahoo: lfp6 that seems similar to the slack outlet being used now [3:30 PM]

rhiju: and is suspect that we could get better gruop/teeam support 'for free' if we rebuild eterna into one of the existing stacks used for succesful multiplayer games [3:30 PM]

cynwulf28: true...but you stll must navigate down the page ....felt like endlesshorse.com [3:30 PM]

Omei: @worseize go to http://www.eternagame.org/web/labs/ [3:30 PM]

cynwulf28: Lied. it's endless.horse lol [3:30 PM]

Omei: They'll be appearing on you home page very soon. [3:31 PM]

rhiju: @worseize the next active lab is getting set up as we speak. [3:31 PM]

LFP6: hoglahoo: The downfall of Slack is that it's just chat, albeit with search. We'd really need to consider how we want to structure our content, how we want to interact with it, etc [3:31 PM]

hoglahoo: gotcha [3:31 PM]

rhiju: @wprseize, the next lab is up at omei's link http://www.eternagame.org/web/labs/  [3:31 PM]

worseize: Omei thank you! [3:31 PM]

rhiju: yea! great work @elNando888 ! [3:31 PM]

AndrewKae: hi all [3:31 PM]

Omei: Hi Andrew! [3:32 PM]

cynwulf28: Hello [3:32 PM]

LFP6: cynwulf: Once upon a time, each lab page contained every single round that was run. Only the last year or two have new rounds been posted as separate projects  [3:32 PM]

whbob: hi andrew [3:32 PM]

rhiju: fairly soon we'll also get this "Open TB Round4" lab up on folks' home pages, with a counter... everyone here gets a sneak preview [3:32 PM]

LFP6: Maybe the old UI wasn't optimal - I'd like to see something along those lines return though [3:32 PM]

cynwulf28: @LFP6 Thank you for that clarification [3:32 PM]

rhiju: @LFP6 yea it was difficult to maintain that old UI. I agree that we should restore it, and we can make it easier to do upon a rebuild [3:33 PM]

LFP6: rhiju: I honestly haven't seen extremely robust group features on any platform I can think of in my personal experience [3:33 PM]

LFP6: I mean, really the most I've seen is a private forum, at least coming to mind [3:34 PM]

cynwulf28: If we had the time I'd say we should just invent those features @LFP6 [3:34 PM]

LFP6: Though we might take some hints from how products like GitHub or CRMs are structured [3:34 PM]

rhiju: right, i've also seen priate forum [3:34 PM]

MasterStormer: I saw some good ones in games. Mainly they had group chat, and group content, 2 thingsthat aren't really viable for us right now imao [3:35 PM]

LFP6: I'm imagining having a larger scope - what about something like Google docs integrated? [3:35 PM]

cynwulf28: 'YET' [3:35 PM]

LFP6: Or a group being able to post solutions, or scripts? [3:35 PM]

LFP6: Or some form of todo lists? [3:35 PM]

worseize: https://worseize.github.io/ScalablePS/ [3:36 PM]

worseize: I know a little bit about github  [3:36 PM]

LFP6: Just things off the top of my head - it's definitely the type of thing where the question is really "what would people find useful"? [3:36 PM]

cynwulf28: hoglahoo has been muttering for ages about needed a second site where these things could be tested by players, but where there would be no risk  to the main site [3:36 PM]

rhiju: @LFP6 the quickest way to do that might be to create a group/team as we already have it, and include a link to a slack... =) [3:36 PM]

cynwulf28: *about needing [3:36 PM]

LFP6: Pulling on people who have already worked together, and thinking about what kinds of thing's we'd want to be able to do [3:36 PM]

rhiju: in other words, the tools to do player development & other initiatives already exist -- witness: eternacon [3:37 PM]

Astromon: http://prntscr.com/ho1y3i [3:37 PM]

rhiju: but we need to better broadcast these teams/groups [3:37 PM]

cynwulf28: the talent and motivation is there [3:37 PM]

cynwulf28: time is often a factor [3:38 PM]

cynwulf28: Some players are going to sleep just as others wake up...#Globalcommunity [3:38 PM]

LFP6: I also think the ideal is that we aim to move from a broadly distributed platform that does most of what we want, to something integrated into Eterna with a better overall user experience/workflow, and with as many features that players want as is viable [3:38 PM]

cynwulf28: makes 'live' events a challenge [3:38 PM]

LFP6: And by distributed, I mean we use all sorts of different platforms, like Docs, Slack, Trello, etc - but at the least we could integrate them better into Eterna's workflow [3:39 PM]

LFP6: That's my personal vision at least [3:40 PM]

cynwulf28: Not to get off task, but has there been much progress with the NEW-'New Progression' aka how we welcome people into the game. [3:40 PM]

rhiju: @cynwulf28 actually devs did have a question about that [3:41 PM]

rhiju: one thing we can do fairly easily is update the puzzles in, say, stage10 (supercomputer) [3:41 PM]

rhiju: for eaxmple to make for a smoother on-ramp to openTB [3:41 PM]

whbob: would our rebuild require more or larger servers? If so, would funding be an issue? [3:42 PM]

rhiju: it would be fantastic to hear from players proposals for how to update those puzzles, with links to specific player-created puzzles [3:42 PM]

cynwulf28: sidenote, as the old progression started from NOVA's site....what is our current relation to how Eterna is presented there....maybe we are do for a follow-up with them...if only to show that we really have progressed since 2009/2013! [3:42 PM]

rhiju: @whbob yes the rebuild would likely require more servers [3:42 PM]

rhiju: but i think the primary cost will not be running the servers over the longer term  [3:43 PM]

rhiju: but the cost of setting up the robust server architecture -- we need to bring on a good engineer (or 3) to do that [3:43 PM]

rhiju: and we are actively seeking funding for that build [3:43 PM]

cynwulf28: good to know [3:43 PM]

rhiju: @cynwulf good quesiton -- i'll bring that up with nova people -- i'll be talking to them in the netx month or so. [3:44 PM]

whbob: that's good news :) [3:44 PM]

cynwulf28: lol, nice timing xD [3:44 PM]

rhiju: @lfp6 what do you think about setting up a couple getsat threads on some of the topics above? [3:44 PM]

LFP6: Sounds like a good idea [3:44 PM]

cynwulf28: The site made such a splash back when it was largely just a proof of concept...the fact that there has been genuine progress should lend itself nicely to any PR/Media Outlet we engaged with in the past. [3:45 PM]

LFP6: rhiju: Just need a hint on what the thread topics should be - chat's been going pretty fast! [3:46 PM]

whbob: could we make an OpenTB category to put all of the previous conmversations into to group them better? [3:46 PM]

cynwulf28: true [3:46 PM]

worseize: Is only energy affect to fold our rna designs or for example triplets of nucleobases (codons ? ) we now start to deal with protein cas9 so do we deal with codons ?  [3:47 PM]

cynwulf28: @whbob I recall some of the threads that Eli Fisker and Omei worked on.....hundreds of pages of documentation [3:47 PM]

sagaen: Maybe you should include more theory in the game, so educational institutions can recommend it for their students? [3:48 PM]

whbob: @cyn: yes, consolidation would be nice [3:48 PM]

rhiju: @worseize we are currently only tackling design challenges that can be framed as problems in energy optimization [3:48 PM]

cynwulf28: technically any three bases could serve as a cododn, but as we are not actively translating this RNA (to my knowledge) then we don't have to worry about how our RNA would translate into protein [3:48 PM]

cynwulf28: .......YET [3:49 PM]

rhiju: but in the future we might also have challenges where we ask players to think about interactions with machines like the ribosome [3:49 PM]

rhiju: so indeed the concept of codon (and tRNA and other parts of protein translation) may come into play [3:49 PM]

worseize: nice [3:49 PM]

rhiju: that expansion to even more complex puzzles and experiments will not happen in 2018, but it might happen sooner than you think [3:50 PM]

cynwulf28: @rhiju  and @worseize It would be a curious thing to design protein from RNA....where the sequene must factor in both design of the polypeptide AND those sequences necessary for regulation/processing...the challenges would be extreme, but also equally awesome [3:50 PM]

Astromon: soun ds fun [3:50 PM]

rhiju: @LFP6 how about one thread to collect suggestions for puzzles to switch out in the puzzle progression? particluarly at the supercomputer level? [3:50 PM]

LFP6: Mmk [3:51 PM]

AndrewKae: I have to go, see ya, worseize, rhiju, Renton, Astro, cynwulf, LFP6, Omei, MasterStormer, whbob [3:51 PM]

worseize: Bye! see you  [3:52 PM]

rhiju: @LFP6 and another thread to discuss aspects of a newy built 'Eterna4' that players would love to see. in the past, there have been discussions but we didn't have a route to depoying signifcant new features. now, with eterna4 coming up, there is a route... [3:52 PM]

rhiju: @andrewkae thanks for tuning in [3:52 PM]

cynwulf28: The Supercomputer puzzes are a right of passage I feel, BUT they shouldn't bar people from entering the Lab...It's simply more than most people can oversome in addition to the busy lives they lead [3:52 PM]

whbob: bye andrew [3:52 PM]

MasterStormer: bye [3:52 PM]

rhiju: @andrewkae would you be willing to have your talk from eternacon2017 available so that players tackling openTB round 4 can understand what you did? [3:52 PM]

LFP6: He's left already [3:53 PM]

MasterStormer: Maybe having 1-13 be a requirement for getting started and early puzzles, and 14-18 for the later openTB labs? [3:53 PM]

cynwulf28: could work [3:53 PM]

rhiju: @LFP6 thanks, will contact AndrewKae separately  [3:53 PM]

Astromon: for some easier labs super co9mputer wouldnt be needed but labs like TB i think it is important to know how to do the super computers [3:53 PM]

cynwulf28: True [3:53 PM]

Astromon: i like masterS's idea [3:53 PM]

LFP6: rhiju: Is there any specific structure for the Eterna4 discussion? Or just basically "list your big ideas" [3:53 PM]

cynwulf28: @Astro And they are clearly not impossible [3:54 PM]

cynwulf28: @LFP6 ah TY [3:54 PM]

cynwulf28: #goals :-D [3:55 PM]

cynwulf28: Old Business Items: [3:55 PM]

rhiju: @MasterStormer great thoughts -- let's collect and further discuss on the getsat forum thread (hopefully we'll have one soon from LFP6) [3:56 PM]

rhiju: @LFP6, yea let's just do 'list your big ideas', and some of the might then spawn separate forum threads. [3:56 PM]

Astromon: putting AK's  TB presentation as a link on the startup page for these labs would be good [3:57 PM]

LFP6: Ok, I'll take care of that in a sec [3:57 PM]

rhiju: everyone i gotta go -- i'm looking forward to more discussions on getsat. and see you in the 'openTB round 4' lab! [3:58 PM]

cynwulf28: 1)Platform Rebuild (code-wise), 2) Organize site content, 3)Improve communications/collaborration capabilities 4) Re-building Induction and Instruction for New Players [3:58 PM]

hoglahoo: bye rhiju, thanks for the chat [3:58 PM]

cynwulf28: So long rhiju, always a pleasure. [3:58 PM]

Astromon: Thanks Rhiju! have a great daY [3:58 PM]

whbob: bye rhiju [3:58 PM]

MasterStormer: Bye! sorry for not being active in this chat, hopefully I'll be more here next time [3:59 PM]

LFP6: Hoglahoo, mind doing the chat log? [3:59 PM]

hoglahoo: I dont mind, gimme a couple of minutes [4:00 PM]

cynwulf28: I have the text available if any of it is missing [4:00 PM]

hoglahoo: yeah it looks better if someone copies it from flashchat [4:01 PM]